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 Author  Topic: Color Photos
  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 4:02pm
Hi Guys;
Drew is right that photo of 61 alongside of 109 was taken, at Searlesville, Russel Islands( I believe during May 1943) at the same time as my color photos. For some reason i can't view Wayne's photos but since Wayne did his research with Ken Prescott, and i have been in contact with Ken constantly since 1994, the same photos Wayne posted here probably are the same photos I have since Ken sent me the same color slides, and I sent them back to him after having them duplicated.
Take care all of you
TED



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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 4:47pm
Wayne:

Thanks so much for sharing these wonderful color photographs. I can't wait to hae them made up. They answer not only questions about the boats colors, but the clothing worn by those who served on the boats. So many models are made with white numbers, but this shows the boat as having black numbers on the chart house. You can tell how the colors of the clothing have faded and changed after many washings in salt water. Notice the dark tans of those on deck. These answer many questions and I think seeing them is very exciting for sure. Thanks again Wayne for sharing them.........


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 6:44pm
Thanks for posting those photos, Wayne. They are fascinating, particularly for what they show color-wise.

Interesting to note that while the 61 is clearly gray, the depth charges/cradles, ventilators, smoke generator, ammo box, torpedo tube (and the charthouse?) on the 77' Elco to port of her are clearly green. The gold-colored torpedo warhead on the boat to starboard in the 61 crew photo is interesting, too.

And although you can't really see much of her, maybe that 80' Elco to starboard of the 61 (in that shot from the port side front corner of the 61's charthouse) is the 109. Even the little you can see of that boat shows an interesting detail - the canvas splash shield on the port twin-.50 turret appears to go behind (inside) one of the gun stop rail uprights, instead of over it, as usually seen.

Thanks again.

-- Drew


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 6:50pm
Great stuff, Wayne. My thanks also.

Will

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 7:52pm
These are some great photos! Great observation Drew about the canvas cover. It clearly is on the inside of the detention rails. The other thing I noticed is that there are paint cans everywhere on the 80' Elco and the green 77 footer next to the 61. Were they in the process of painting their boats green?

Does anyone have any thoughts about the tube covers? They look like they are brass? I noticed that the same color is on the ignitor as well. It also looks similar to the ends of the depth charges. I'm assuming this is paint? Even the wing nuts and inspection plates are brass or whatever natural metal that is.

I took a look at the photo of 109 under way because the canvas around the after .50 would be some pretty good evidence since that is an unusual arrangement. Unfortuantely I can't tell for sure but there is a shadow that gives a hint that the rail may be on the exterior. I wonder how they secured it that way.

Are there any other photos? These are just priceless.

Thanks for posting!
Dave

David Waples

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 11:16pm
Hi Again guys;
I have read all your posts. The boat to starboard is the 109. I have determined this through research , mainly CDR Jack Searles (MTB RON 3(2) CO) personal log a copy of which he has sent me. He used this to write Tales of Tulagi. Also Gene Kirkland has come to the same conclusions as I have, it is not "it might be 109", it is 109! You ask how do I know? because through all the PT logbooks Gene has copied, and CDR Searles log that I have, we have determined that PT 109 is the only 80' Elco that was operational in the Russells during May 1943. The other RON 2 80'ers were either sunk, transferred, or damaged and being repaired at Tulagi.
I also believe that the other 77'ELCO in the photos is Ken's later command PT 48, which LT.jg John ILES was the skipper at the time of the photos. As skipper of PT 48, it was he who towed JFK and PT 109 back to Searlesville the night the depth charge went through the deck in heavy seas. During this night LT. Al Cluster was the patrol officer and he was aboard PT 48.
Yes 61 did have black numbers, so did PT 59 when Ens. David Levy was Skipper of her, during the tokyo express days and just afterwards. Levy and Jack Searles crew from 60, took 59 out on patrols on alternating nights(after 60 was run aground and damaged extensively).
Take care,
TED


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 3, 2008 - 11:31pm
Oh I almost forgot Frank; I also have photos of PT 38(Bob Searles) and PT 39(Len Nikoloric/Joe Atkinson) at Tulagi Late 1942-early 1943 and they both have black numbers on the charthouse. As you will see on Gene's website, most of the RON 2 and 3(2) boats had single numbers in Panama. It seems they sort of kept the thing going a little bit, by painting low visability black numbers when heading to Tulagi.
David: The canvas spray shields were lashed to the gun tub railings with 1/4 inch- 1/2 inch line. They had grommets all the way around the top of the canvas and in certain places on the bottom.
Hope this helps,
TED


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 4, 2008 - 5:01am
Thanks for the information Ted. Odd that the canvas was hung on the interior of the rails. That may be the only time I've seen that done.

I've listened to a lot of opinions about paint color for the 109 boat over the years. Most of the information I got from Al Ross, Snyder & Short. I experimented a lot with the paint colors but the one that seems to come closest to the 109 in this photo is about 4-5 parts of the WEM Tropical Green and 2 parts black. Substituting dark gray for black may work just as well. There's something very distinctive about that color that is picked up in the Tropical Green paint The boat next to the 61 also looks very similar to that color but a little lighter. I have some chips of 5NG and their is something not quite right about that color. Maybe John Snyder from WEM will jump in and explain the difference after looking at the photos.

The other thing that is striking to me are the covers of the torpedo tubes. They look like they are natural brass. This is replicated on the ends of the depth charges. I sent these photos off to a few different people to get opinions. Does anyone know what the covers were made of? Are they in fact brass? Were they coated with something to protect the metal from the elements? This to me was maybe the biggest surprise from the photos.

Thanks again guys.
Dave

David Waples

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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Jan 4, 2008 - 11:56am
Dave,

I'm pretty sure the brass-colored (or "gold," as I called them in a previous post) objects in the torpedo tube we're talking about isn't a cover, but is the actual torpedo itself - that is, the warhead of the torpedo, showing inside the uncovered tube. I'm speaking specifically about the one seen just over the sailor with the mop's hand in Wayne's photo of the crew in front of the 61's charthouse.

Notice the way the "brass" object is INSIDE the circumference of the tube - if it was the tube cover, it wouldn't look this way. The cover would, well, cover the warhead and the edge of the tube, and be somewhat flush with the rest of the tube. Also, the covers had two securing bolts at either side of their tops. The boats in the forward areas are usually seen with the small triangular metal plate-and-cables "positive lock" device to secure the fish inside the tubes.

Good photos of the tube covers (page 72, bottom) and the positive lock device (page 73, top) can be seen in Frank D. Johnson's book "United States PT-Boats of World War II In Action."

Furthermore, what reason would there have been to paint the tube covers brass or gold? I would think they'd mostly have been painted the same color as the rest of the tube(s).


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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 4, 2008 - 12:26pm
Just had the photo's made up into 5x7 pictures and they are just great. You can clearly see many things when having them blown up. I really enjoy seeing the worn out areas of the boat, which makes for important research when doing a boat. The blue-jeans that the guys have on really have taken a beating in this heat, not to mention the boots they are wearing. You can clearly see the type of green color used on the boats when viewing the zdepth charges and Ventilators of the other boat. The 61 sports an interesting grey color, made from exposure to the Sun, Humidity, Salt Water and everyday use from having the crew climb all over her.

For those interested in doing a Diorama, you can clearly see the type trees and vegatation on those small inlet water ways. Just a great Historical find. Hope we can get more of these fantastic photo's. Does the Navy Archives have color pictures of the boats?


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