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Jerry Gilmartin |
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 Posted on: Jun 19, 2022 - 10:30pm
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Hello Randy,
Yes those angle iron frames were used to stow 40mm ammo in what are termed "Ready Service Ammunition" racks. I have seen plans for adding these field expedient angle iron frames for both Elco and Higgins PT Boats. The 40mm ammo was also kept in wooden boxes mounted at the aft corners of several Higgins PT Boats. With the rate of fire of a Bofors 40mm cannon being close to 120 rounds per minute ( 2 per second) you can burn through a lot of clips in a hurry. These simple angle iron frames were easy to make for a tender and added much needed nearby storage of extra ammo for the 40mm Bofors. I am posting these photos of a single 40mm ammo can so you can see how they look. They hold 4 of the 4 round clips and the box when full weighs almost 100 pounds! We have about 8 of these on board PT658. I think the gasketed box top lid is really unique since it dogs all four corners using a simple linkage; like on a water tight door of a ship. Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jun 19, 2022 - 11:35pm
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Here are a few pics I found that show some angle iron Racks in use PT127 shows angle iron rack ( PT127 from Robert J Douglas Collection) and PT171 from Cas Milewski shows the RSL made from angle iron frames to hold several rows of metal ammo boxes in place of the factory made wood rack. Also PT505 with Diver in Portland England shows wooden chests as does PT309 Higgins (the dark colored one taken facing aft) shows similar wooden ammo chests mounted near the stern. Then PT315 Elco at Melville shows factory installed wooden chest mounted to deck near 40mm to hold 40mm ammo Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
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Jeff D
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Posted on: Jun 22, 2022 - 6:36am
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Most excellent Jerry thank you. Where did you find the plans for the "field expedient angle iron frames", and do you remember if they had a plan number starting with "SK"? I read somewhere that the letters stand for "SKetch" and Dick's Elco plan set references a number of them although most are missing.
I've seen a number of "custom" .50 mounts using the turret mounts curved ammo boxes Randy. Some are welded in as part of the mount and others appear to allow the boxes to swap out. I believe this is the 361's port tripod mount you mentioned that I think but aren't quite sure has swappable boxes:
This Acey Deucey 20mm / 50 cal mount on PT 525 definitely has replaceable boxes:
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PRJM3
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Posted on: Jul 10, 2022 - 9:53pm
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Jerry, Thanks for the pictures of the ammo containers as mounted on the PT boats as well as the close-ups of an actual container. I always assumed the lid had some kind of cam mechanism that engaged all four corners.
Jeff, the picture you posted is indeed the port mount on PT 361. That picture is in my Dad's collection (I believe that he took it) and I have previously posted it here. From the notes in Dad's photo album, the sailor manning the guns is Al Heimke. As far as I know the ammo boxes are not removeable; they are in place in every picture I have or have seen showing that mount.
I went back through the photo album and found some additional pictures. The first one, which I have posted here previously shows the white painted cans behind the 40 mm mount. I have inserted the names of the sailors into the picture.
The second picture shows sailors (names unknown) doing laundry on the starboard ammo box on PT 359. It appears to be the smooth-sided wooden box with a single ammo can next to it and an additional ammo can off to one side.
The third picture was a bit of a surprise. I always liked it for its un-staged appearance and Dad's photo album caption "Bum boat making its rounds." PT 359 appears to be underway, and at least three of the boats have the extra 40 mm boxes on the stern. To me they look like the angle iron style holding three cans. And I hesitate to mention it, but the 359 appears to have the auxiliary latrine installed on the stern. Who's going to be the first to incorporate that into a model? Photo-etched, resin cast, or 3D printed? The 359 also had a twin 50 mount on the port bow with curved ammo boxes (I believe) and bell mouthed flash arrestors, but it had a single vertical pole mount where the 361 had a tripod mount
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III) |
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Gary Paulsen
MASTER
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Posted on: Jul 11, 2022 - 7:26am
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Love seeing pictures of Ron 27.
Thanks Randy
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Jeff D
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Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 7:07am
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What's a bum boat? I don't remember ever hearing that term before.
You're right Randy, that would be a unique model addition. And auxiliary latrine sounds better than an ugh box:D
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PRJM3
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 4:20pm
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Jeff, From Wikipedia: "A bumboat is a small boat used to ferry supplies to ships moored away from the shore. The name comes from the combination of the Dutch word for a canoe—"boomschuit" ("boom" meaning "tree"), and "boat". In Singapore, the term "bumboat" is applied to small water taxis and boats that take tourists on short tours." I'm guessing that Dad never knew the origins of the word. Until now, I didn't.
At Subic Bay, where the bum boat picture was taken, the RON 27 boats docked either at the old coaling tower or in nests on open water just off the tower. In my earlier post in this thread showing two crewmen at the 40mm Bofors on the 361, the coaling tower can be seen in the background. In several of his pictures there are submarines, minesweepers and/or Australian Corvettes docked at the coaling tower, and it appears that the larger vessels had priority. I have pictures of 361 crewmen on the dock surrounding the tower and Dad said they tried to get on land for a while whenever they could. Between bringing supplies to the PTs and shuttling crewmen around, this is a situation where the bum boat would be used. The Varuna was a bit further out on open water and the PTs would go there for heavier supplies, such as the torpedo being loaded on the 361 shown at the beginning of this thread.
Of course, the bum boat wouldn't be used if all the PTs were nested at the Varuna. That raises the question, for me anyway, of whether the bum boat was carried on the Varuna when not in use.
There are several pictures in Dad's collection of RON 27 boats on joyrides, usually involving some official function like picking up mail with a fair number of unofficial maneuvers thrown in. He told me that land-based sailors (and maybe those on the Varuna) often wanted to go along for the ride just to "get away" while PT boat crew that weren't needed preferred to spend time on dry land.
Randy McConnell (Randall J. McConnell III) |
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Jul 13, 2022 - 8:21pm
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Great UGH! photo, leaves noting to the imagination . . .
Thanks Jeff, Jerry, and Randy, great posts as always
Dick . . .
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Jeff D
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Posted on: Jul 15, 2022 - 7:18am
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Thanks Randy, I had thought it was for people to bum a ride or maybe trying to bum parts or supplies from other crews.
Yah Dick it certainly self explains its function at a glance! It really tickled me when I first saw it. No well equipped PT model should be without one.
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