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 Author  Topic: Hickman Sea Sled
Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Jun 15, 2016 - 7:27pm
Hickman continued to be innovative. Once WW2 started, I can easily understand why the Soviets wanted to immediately purchase 80 of these as torpedo boats. Having the entire internal framing mass produced by US Steel with a marine plywood skin meant the materials for the entire order could have been shipped in a few vessels and assembled quickly on location by relatively unskilled labor. Of course the supply of Packard engines and armament would have still been a hold up, but I'm sure this order would have been completed much faster and at less cost than what unfolded with the ELCO, Higgins and Vosper orders.

As for the estimated cost and performance of the proposed Sea Sled PT Boat, computations seem to indicate the boat hull's cost at about half what a traditional PT Boat cost. At 78 feet, breadth 16.5 feet, draft 4 feet, the fully loaded boat top speed (with its four Packards including 4000 gal of fuel), was estimated to be in the 50-60 knots range, with speeds in heavy seas estimated at 35 knots and long range cruising speed around 30 knots. Like the WW1 boat, this vessel could have been hoisted fully loaded by the four lift rings. These very roomy vessels would have provided a very stable platform for a forward firing 40mm gun mount and ample deck space (and hull support for all the assorted weapons. All a very interesting what could have been scenario if Hickman had been allowed to compete.


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jun 16, 2016 - 10:44am
Andy;
Here is the smaller version being tested as an Air Sea Rescue boat Feb 1945 Rockland Maine,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQKBHspLyc

OR




Take care,
TED

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jun 16, 2016 - 4:13pm
duplicate

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jun 16, 2016 - 4:13pm
Wow Ted! Wild 80ft Elco spotted!
Did you notice that in your film at time stamp 7:00 all the way to 9:20 they show a closeup of Elco PT486 fully armed rescuing the test dummy in the life raft? It has all the weapons it was equipped with. This was filmed in Feb of 1945 so I guess that makes sense. Good find!
Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jun 17, 2016 - 10:41am
Jerry;
Yes, and here is some more proof PT 486 and PT 452 were sent up TAD to Rockland Maine for these tests.


Take care,
TED


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Jun 19, 2016 - 9:33am
Here are some updated photos of my 1/48 scale project. I added the 47mm Hotchkiss and anchor. The gun was fun to build and adds a wicked steam punk look to the sea sled. Used my laser to cut laserboard and basswood and filed down aluminum tubing to maker the barrel and some brass rod for one of the handles.

Been trying to figure out how the ready ammo was stored on a bouncing boat. The Russians stored their small 47mm ammo boxes within the gun mount stand just stacked on the deck of their larger vessels.

Even though it's not completely done, I've decided to bring the model to display at Mystic Seaport this coming weekend ( the Annual Wooden Boat Show). Sea Sleds were built in Mystic during the 20s and 30s and the seaport has four small sea sleds in their collection (three 13' and one 16'). The 16' is cool to see since it has the beveled-stepped chine (built in the mid 20s).

photo
photo



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David Buck

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Jun 19, 2016 - 6:40pm
Interesting connection to TWE and MGM on that page you put up Ted, have not seen that before thanks,
Dave.

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  Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Jun 19, 2016 - 7:41pm
Great plug for the Fold3 website. I've spent many, many enjoyable hours reading through all the war diary and after action reports they have made available on their site. Fantastic online resource. Like reading an unedited At Close Quarters with an unpublished Volume II, and all from the comfort of home.

- Andy


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Sep 26, 2016 - 12:10pm
Found some interesting information on sea sleds including a proposal from Sep 1936 for a 57 ft sea sled six engine motor torpedo boat with three 18 torpedoes.

Also, I believe I uncovered why there seems to be such extreme variation with the reported ability of the sea sled to handle rough seas. On the one hand we have significant designers, sea sled owners such as the owner of the magazine MotorBoating, and boat racers strongly supporting the sea keeping of the sea sled design, but we then have instances of the Navy saying how horrible they are. Two sea sleds that were tested and specifically evaluated by the Navy and mentioned as the reason not to buy sea sleds are the 32' crash boat in Pensacola 1916 and the 45' crash boat in Hampton, VA in 1935-6. Both of these vessels had extremely high beam to length ratios, in fact the highest (by a significant factor) from the 40 some models of large sea sleds I've been able to find information on. This would probably mean that the angle in the forward part of the vessels was probably way too shallow and would have had a significant role in increasing the slamming affect in any sort of chop. It seems that Hickman was trying to provide a very stable platform from which to facilitate personnel rescue for these crash boats.

A narrower beam for the sea sled would have increased the hull angle at the point of entry and would have greatly helped the ride, just as this does for V bottom boats. A sea sled the navy was happy with, the C-378 motor torpedo boat that CAPT Mustin evaluated in 1918, had narrower beam, a greater hull angle and was felt to have great sea keeping capability despite the navy insisting on using overweight engines which greatly affected trim. CAPT Mustin employed light weight engines on the aircraft sea sleds C-1558 and C-1559.


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