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 Author  Topic: Ted Robinson's Claim to Have Helped Rescue JFK
William Doyle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of William Doyle  Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 4:31pm
Part 2 of the Ron Freeman letter:

Ms. Cathy Locke

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William Doyle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of William Doyle  Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 4:33pm
(Freeman letter cont John O’Neil was radioman aboard PT 162, the boat closest to PT 109 when it sank after ramming by a Japanese destroyer. Ironically, O’Neil lived not far from Ted. O’Neil believed Ted was aboard PT 159 the night PT 109 went down. O’Neil stated that Ted recounted much of what he also recalled from that night and that Ted recalled things that only a person who was actually there could have known.
O’Neil also said he knew several of the PT 109 crew and talked with them about their ordeal. He said that when he and Ted talked about the rescue, Ted had said much the same things that he had been told by the PT 109 crewmembers. Again, O’Neil believed Ted had information that could only have been known by a person who was there.
Rich also spoke with Dick Kersey, skipper of PT 105, another of the 15 boats on the 8/1/43 attack mission when PT 109 was lost, and Paul Fay, a PT officer later appointed Undersecretary of the Navy by Kennedy. Both men said they knew Ted, had heard his story, and believed his accounting of both the attack and rescue missions.
Regarding the official report, written by Lt. Byron “Whizzer” White, whom Kennedy later appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, you will find a reference link below to permit your convenient review. You will note that the names of those who were aboard PT 157 the night of the rescue are not listed.
In conclusion, as Ted’s friend for many years, I found him to be an honest man, with the highest integrity. He had an interesting story to tell and shared it with others. In his book “Water In My Veins,” he made none of the claims found in the YouTube video. Those, I firmly believe, were due to his age and failing memory, and not any attempt to seek glory. I point out, especially to Mr. Doyle and the other doubters, that there can always be possibilities other than what they think they know or may surmise. Our
family considers it an honor and a privilege to have known and been friends of this remarkable individual.
Your attention is sincerely appreciated, I leave to you what action, if any, you feel may be appropriate. I look to Mr. Doyle to fulfill the promise made at the end of his letter.

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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 5:13pm
I surely stand by my post on this thread (is it post #3). Having interviewed two PT officers and a PT crewman who were in the foursome of PTs the night the 109 was lost and two of whom were without a doubt on the PT-157 the night of the rescue PLUS my having retrieved the PT-118's log book pages for the period of time of these events for comparison of Mr Robinson's account and that of USN Log pages, I would have to say the conclusions I noted previously stand well against those who wish otherwise. I have done the job the Sacramento Bee would have to say is excellent investigative reporting on the subject.

That other publications wrote what Ted Robinson simply said does not make Robinson's story true.

Two years ago I ran into another case of a PT veteran in South Carolina. Thereto the local paper had hailed him a hero, for the past 40-years, for having been on the PT-157 the night of the Kennedy rescue. In the end, after the Reporter spoke to the PT-157 Skipper (W.F. Liebenow), Torpedoman (Welford West) and myself, the reporter went to the veteran's widow and asked to review her late husband's personal service records. They revealed that the widow's husband had not had not joined the USN until 2 months after the 109 sinking. Like Ted Robinson, that veteran had also served on PTs and did indeed serve briefly on the PT-157 6-months after the 109 rescue. Certainly being that close to other crewmen who were there and often recounting the incident may in time blur the line, for those who were not there, between being there and almost being there.

Bridge


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29navy

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of 29navy  Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 7:20pm
In looking through my files, I see an Ens T.M. Robinson graduating from MTBSTC July 30, 1942 and being assigned to Ron 6.

Charlie

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 7:57pm
Bridge and Bill;
I agree. At the time of the sinking and the week afterward, there were only 30 or so PT Officers at Lumbari, it is absolutely preposterous to insinuate that Bud Leibenow "might not have known or remembered" all the Officers that went on the 1st mission(resulting in the sinking) or the rescue mission.
I have been in mission briefings, and you know everybody in that briefing. Combine this with the fact that Brantingham (who was Kelly's RON 9 Exec) and Warfield gave the mission briefings by the book, if you were to miss a briefing, you were instantly on Warfield's S- list. As it should be.
By the way, just to fan the flames....where was Paul Fay at the time? He wasn't Exec on Russell Rome's PT 174 anymore and I don't think he was Ted Berlin's Exec at that time on PT 167. Hmm, maybe another trip to the logbooks is in order here. Fay was on Warfield's S- list, at Melville and again out in the zone. Maybe he was on the beach awaiting assignment. In Fay's Obit of September 30, 2009, states he was CO of PT 167 the day the aerial torpedo went through the crews quarters of 167, but this is not true, it was actually Ted Berlin who was the CO. His Wikipedia page says the same thing.Here again Fay was a been there done that kind of guy, but this info is inaccurate. Inaccuracies and half truths are everywhere, it is up to future generations to be the custodians of history and if they find something inaccurate.....CORRECT IT! Don't just say, oh well, they have said this for years or this is the way it has been done for years, that is the PC/BS way to do things.

TED




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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 8:45pm
I surely stand by my post on this thread (is it post #3). Having interviewed two PT officers and a PT crewman who were in the foursome of PTs the night the 109 was lost and two of whom were without a doubt on the PT-157 the night of the rescue PLUS my having retrieved the PT-118's log book pages for the period of time of these events for comparison of Mr Robinson's account and that of USN Log pages, I would have to say the conclusions I noted previously stand well against those who wish otherwise. I have done the job the Sacramento Bee would have to say is excellent investigative reporting on the subject.

That other publications wrote what Ted Robinson simply said does not make Robinson's story true.

Two years ago I ran into another case of a PT veteran in South Carolina. Thereto the local paper had hailed him a hero, for the past 40-years, for having been on the PT-157 the night of the Kennedy rescue. In the end, after the Reporter spoke to the PT-157 Skipper (W.F. Liebenow), Torpedoman (Welford West) and myself, the reporter went to the veteran's widow and asked to review her late husband's personal service records. They revealed that the widow's husband had not had not joined the USN until 2 months after the 109 sinking. Like Ted Robinson, that veteran had also served on PTs and did indeed serve briefly on the PT-157 6-months after the 109 rescue. Certainly being that close to other crewmen who were there and often recounting the incident may in time blur the line, for those who were not there, between being there and almost being there.

Bridge


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 31, 2015 - 11:08pm
Charlie;
Thanks for that info.

I would like to take this opportunity to clearify my previous post.

"At the time of the sinking and the week afterward, there were only 30 or so PT Officers at Lumbari, it is absolutely preposterous to insinuate that Bud Leibenow "might not have known or remembered" all the Officers that went on the 1st mission(resulting in the sinking) or the rescue mission.
I have been in mission briefings, and you know everybody in that briefing. Combine this with the fact that Brantingham (who was Kelly's RON 9 Exec) and Warfield gave the mission briefings by the book, if you were to miss a briefing, you were instantly on Warfield's S- list. As it should be."

For those that are not in the know, it is not like the movies, meaning the RON CO doesn't just point at the map and say "Here is the enemy, now lets go get them"! and everybody goes running for their boats and lights out of the harbor at full throttle.

Back then in the PT Boat Squadrons it was just like it is today in the Naval Special Boat Teams. The average mission briefing lasts anywhere from 1-2 hours, depending on the complexity of the mission. You get briefed on everything you can imagine, Weather, Intelligence(Jap locations and movements, location of friendlies, location of Coastwatchers, Direction, speed and composition of force to be attacked, photo recon, human intel, etc), Abandon Boat procedures, Escape and Evasion procedures, Communications(call signs with Base, each other, air sea rescue, daily aerial recognition signals, etc), Weapons load out and status, Engineering and Craft status, Supply, Medical. The purpose for all of this is to provide the most info to the PT Boat Officers for them to successfully complete their mission, and to eliminate any and all questions, before they shove off.
There is always a question and answer at the end and protocol dictates that when you have a question you stand up and address the briefing officer, Example: "Sir, Question". When you are recognized, you address the officer as such: I am LT. so and so , PT so and so, RON 2, Excuse me, I missed what you said, what are the aerial recognition call signs and maneuver for today"?
When the briefing is adjourned it is understood that their are no more questions. Then the crews do final pre-underway preps, usually 1-4 hours, depending on the time the brief took and time of sunset. then underway to patrol area.
So you see, as far as the officers are concerned they all knew each other, at least by sight and name, by the end of that briefing, because your life might depend on another officer and his boat. Speaking from experience,you don't ever forget this either.
The only real difference between then and now is advancements in technology and today your whole crew goes to the briefing, the mission is briefed by Command Reps(Comms, Intell, Medical, Weather, etc). Then the Det briefs their mission intent and movement and each crewman's responsibility (Boat Captain, Weapons, Comms, Engineering, etc.) is briefed by themselves to CO and the brass.

There were not too many PT Officers were floating around Lumbari, since 1 July 1943 3 boats were lost (between RON 9 and 10) so at least six officers were without assignments. most of the floaters or replacements(unassigned PT Officers) were back at Tulagi or Searlesville(M'Banika Island, Russell Islands) and were moved up as needed. As an example, ENS George "Barney" Ross was floating around Lumbari because his boat PT 166 RON 10 was accidentally bombed by Army B-25's on July 20. 1943. So he and his Skipper, ENS. William C. "Black Bill" Battle were floaters, (Unassigned) and they were already there and going out on other boats, gaining combat experience. In actuality when Ross bummed his ride on PT 109, he was actually the more experienced officer onboard, IN THE AREA OF CURRENT OPERATIONS since he had been at Lumbari for almost a month.
I hope this helps.
TED


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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jan 1, 2016 - 10:18am
Ted,

Excellent! Great to add this detail of mission briefings and what went on om the briefing tent to add that historical detail.

By the way, if there were unattached RON-9 crewmen and Officers milling around Lumbari Island (Rendova), they would have been from the 153 & 158 that ran aground between Rendova and New Georgia (and were purposely destroyed by US forces) in early July.

Bridge



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William Doyle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of William Doyle  Posted on: Jan 1, 2016 - 10:53am
I would be persuaded to publicly change my very strong, evidence-based conclusion that Ted Robinson did not participate in the rescue of JFK and the PT 109 survivors, if anyone could produce evidence such as:
- Contemporaneous U.S. Navy documents (1943 or 1944) confirming Robinson's presence on the rescue boat.
- Robinson's service records confirming it.
- U.S. Navy correspondence or other U.S. military documents confirming his participation in the rescue.
- Documented eyewitness accounts of his participation, for example from Al Cluster, Hank Brantingham or anyone else who was on the rescue boat (PT 157) or the boat that provided initial radar coverage for the mission (PT 171).
- Correspondence or oral histories from such eyewitnesses and participants that are addressed to Robinson or anyone else that refers to his participation.
- Any other convincing evidence.
Until such evidence is available, Ted Robinson's participation in the rescue of JFK and the PT 109 survivors is at best an unconfirmed story, and at worst a complete fantasy.
I stand ready to be corrected with evidence. If that happens, I also stand ready to apologize and admit my own mistake.
William Doyle

William Doyle

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 1, 2016 - 12:06pm
Bridge;
True, 153 and 158 for RON 9 and 166 for RON 10. Harold Marney who was killed on PT 109 was a RON 9 crewman(joining RON 9 just a little less than a month after commissioning on 12/2/42) and was original crew from PT 155.
In fact Marney and Starkey were RON 9, both from PT 155. They remained on RON 9's muster rolls. I went through the RON 2, 5, 6, 9, and 10 crew muster rolls for 31 AUG 1943 again, Ross and Albert were from RON 10.
Here are the actual Squadron assignments for all on PT 109 the night of 1 August 1943:

LT. Kennedy, RON 2

Ens Thom, RON 2

Ens Ross, RON 10(formerly Bill Battle's Exec on PT 166}

Maguire, RON 3(2)

Zinser, RON 5 (he was in RON 2 1941/RON 4/RON 5)

Kirksey, RON 2

Marney, RON 9

Starkey,RON 9

Johnson, RON 2(originally from AGP-3 USS JAMESTOWN)

McMahon RON 2

Harris, RON 2

Mauer, RON2

Albert RON 10

Take care,
TED


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