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 Author  Topic: Early Elco 80'--Which Boat to Build?
TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Aug 30, 2014 - 5:32am
Zeusbheld;
RON 10 did go into combat with the adapter scheme, there are several photos of them "up the line" in the Solomons. Once in the Solomons, the white lines were repainted a light green. There are photos of a PT 174 model in this version of the scheme. Then around Dec 43- Jan 44 the boats were repainted Navy Green.
Take care,
TED


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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 8, 2014 - 8:14am
Thanks, Ted.

I'm leaning toward a Ron 10 boat now. Not sure about 174 because the Bofors is about 30 grams. I suspect most of it's the base though, and I could make a lighter base.

Next big question is, when did they start using aircraft torpedoes on roll off racks? I am now considering using them, if they're light enough. I could then use the Revell/White Ensign torpedo tubes on a 77' Elco.



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PeterTareBuilder2

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of PeterTareBuilder2  Posted on: Sep 8, 2014 - 1:34pm
Ahoy there.

Sounds like you have a fun project.

Your S-Boot has a lot more hull volume than does the 1/72 scale PT-109 hull.

Weight was the enemy of the real PT boats and it's also the ene,my of small scale PT boats.

A 1/72 scale hull other than one of actual wood doesn't have a heck of a flotation margin for metal parts which including photo-etch can add a lot of weight in a hurry.

Fortunately the radio-control industry has made huge strides forward with brushless motors and integrated circuit boards with the servo and speed control combined on them. The light -weight lithium batteries are a good choice but charge them out of the model.

That old Revell kit brings a lot of fun to a lot of small scale boat model builders.

Good luck, please keep us posted on the progress and cheers from PeterTareBuilder2

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 9, 2014 - 9:45am
Brief update: playing with the scales again, if I remake the base of the Bofors in something lighter than white metal I can get the gun's weight down to about 15 g maybe less. it'll be front-heavy if i build 174, but I can't imagine 174 was anything but front-heavy. I do need it to get up on the step. it's got to plane.

I don't know how much the plastic Hasegawa antitank gun that the 103 (and 109) had mounted will weigh but styrene isn't all that light, I'm finding out.

The Schnellboot will be pretty easy... except that I've decided I must try to have it replicate the 'Lurssen effect': it must, through the turning out of the outboard rudders, ride lower in the water, faster, and with a somewhat smalller wake.

The PT, on the other hand, must get up on the step and create a foaming frothing mess behind it.

174 is currently in first place due to the adaptor scheme and bofors.


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PeterTareBuilder2

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of PeterTareBuilder2  Posted on: Sep 11, 2014 - 12:13am
Quote:

Brief update: playing with the scales again, if I remake the base of the Bofors in something lighter than white metal I can get the gun's weight down to about 15 g maybe less. it'll be front-heavy if i build 174, but I can't imagine 174 was anything but front-heavy. I do need it to get up on the step. it's got to plane.

I don't know how much the plastic Hasegawa antitank gun that the 103 (and 109) had mounted will weigh but styrene isn't all that light, I'm finding out.

The Schnellboot will be pretty easy... except that I've decided I must try to have it replicate the 'Lurssen effect': it must, through the turning out of the outboard rudders, ride lower in the water, faster, and with a somewhat smalller wake.

The PT, on the other hand, must get up on the step and create a foaming frothing mess behind it.

174 is currently in first place due to the adaptor scheme and bofors.





Ahoy there.

To add the stuff you want to, especially the 40 mm gun, will make it a lot harder to get such a small model to plane. You'll need a brushless motor and lithium battery in order to keep the weight down. Then again, some guys modify servos so that the servo motor powers a prop shaft and the speed control is the servo itself. Search 'servo hack' to see how it's done.

You'll also need to figure out how long tou want the boat to run for. Lithium batteries might be light but the longer the run time wanted the bigger and/or heavier the battery is.

One thing you might want to do is research the components you plan to use to run the model. Get the weights for them and then add that amount of weight plus the weight of the upper deck structures and weapons to the interior of the hull and then tape the deck in place and see how low it sits in a tub of water.

Good luck and cheers from Peter

"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too."

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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 15, 2014 - 7:15pm
considering the weight, I don't think I can do the bofors, and thus can't do the 174. 103 and 109 are just about ruled out because of the antitank gun on the bow (weight).

I'm still very much considering a RON 10 boat however, as I think the adaptor scheme, will look interesting on the water. Especially in green and black, as the ponds near me are greenish (from algae). The good thing about the algae in the water is that it makes it more opaque, which is great for small-scale boats.

The PE is quite heavy too, almost 40 grams, but I think it will be a LOT lighter when installed as the actual pieces are small and thin, and most of the sheets are the sprue (or whatever it's called with PE).

I've found plenty of light RC components, and even motors, by reading threads on rc forums by people building tiny airplanes.

The schnellboot should be a little easier as it's a larger, deeper-draft boat, but I'm sure I will find ways to make that more difficult, too.


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Todd Kyle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Sep 19, 2014 - 11:24pm
Did you use Testor Elco PT boat 1:160 scale?

I know very little about this kit, but it looks like its been around a while. At 1:160 scale it is really small. Testor as a brand I'd say inhabits the mid to low end of the market.

The 1:160 scale falls within the range of the popular N scale for model railroads. It may seem far fetched, but if you are building dioramas you may find vehicles, accessories and figures to convert from model railroad products.

Texas Marine Services

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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 20, 2014 - 5:35am
I think I've got my tentative short list:

PT 168, Ron 10 1943, light green adaptor scheme (good photos, probably pre-Pacific)

PT 170, Ron 10, 1943, light green adaptor scheme (good photos, pre-Pacific)

PT 122 Ron 6, 1942 lt grey factory paint (or dark grey?)

PT 117 Ron 6, 1942 med grey factory paint (photo of bombed out boat sure doesn't look dark grey)

PT 115 Ron 6, 1942 med grey (no photos)

Ron 5 boats (103, 107 and 109) still in play, but if it's one of these she'd probably be grey, and without the antitank gun (weathered, in the Pacific)

Also I'll most likely go with Dean's Marine Minigear

http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/cPath/5_29/products_id/2726] (22 grams)

or Microgear (12 grams) electronics.

http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/cPath/5_29/products_id/2771

I'll likely build this one before the Schnellboot as Dean's Marine have already built little 1/72 Vospers and 1/35 Pibbers with these electronics, so there's less to figure out (less to buy too, as I already have the PE set).

If weight still appears to be an issue after I play in the bathtub some more, I'll have Christian (the MTB Hulls guy) build me a one-ply hull which should save about 10 to 15 grams over the kit hull and deck. He said it would likely be a bit fragile, but I don't plan on recreating the 109's last night so it should be fine.

I definitely plan to build at least one 77 footer on one of his hulls after this, probably from one of the Ron 3s.

MTB Hulls:
http://www.mtbhulls.co.uk/the-hulls

PS sorry I wasn't able to make the links behave like links; I tried the way it works on other forums and it doesn't work here so i'll figure it out next time i try to post a link.

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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 20, 2014 - 7:48am
Mr. Kyle,

I wasn't aware there *was* a Testors 1/160 scale kit. I'm using the Revell 1/72 kit. I lean very far toward constant scale and there's not much out there in 1/160 so it's of little interest to me even if the kit's immaculate.


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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Sep 27, 2014 - 4:22am
I've set aside the big decision about the little boat for a bit as I wait for more books to arrive.

Right now the front runner is PT-122, on the night of December 23, 1942, when it sank a sub (credited as I-22). This boat would be grey, She was completed in August and transferred directly to the Pacific. I think 4 months is enough time to cause substantial weathering, but I'll have to do some experiments (Thailand is conveniently tropical and humid, i'll paint some wood grey and leave it in the sun).

PT-168 and PT-170 are tied for 2nd, I'd like to read a Ron 10 unit history before I decide anything.

If I build PT-122, I'll eventually build a 'zebra boat' but my next PT will be an Elco 77'. If I decide to build in 1/35, the Italeri as 168 or 170 might be the first.

There are still other boats in play though and I won't make a decision until I've read all the books I intend to read (including books about individual boats).

I'm also a bit distracted by the rest of my 'fleet' trickling in one ship at a time. My Revell 1/72 Flower-class corvette arrived, brilliantly packed to save me money on shipping by a very generous e-Bayer. This will most likely be the FFS Aconit, which sank 2 u-boats in one very remarkable action.

I also made a deal (e-Bay again!) for a Revell 1/72 Gato, a package with reference books and aftermarket PE stuff. This will most likely be built as the Barb on its 9th war patrol in 1944. An early-war version of the Greenling is still possible, but I've been a big fan of Fluckey's own account of the Barb's exploits since I was a kid.

First boats built will be the Elco 80, the Flower and the Schnellboot. I'm starting them all at once and the first one finished will be the one that gets stuck the fewest times (unforeseen technical problems and, of course, money will be factors). I expect the Elco will be finished first, as I've sourced a lot of the 'innards'.

The Prop Shop
http://www.prop-shop.co.uk/products.php?cat=ww2-pattern

has bronze props only slightly larger than the scale ones on the Elco. I'd like to build her with all 3 props, but that depends on the feasibility of running 2 or 3 motors. Most of the RC conversions I've seen are 1 motor with a big (ugly) plastic or nylon prop. I ain't goin' out like that.

After all that the 1/72 Elco 77 footer will be built after the Flower but before the Gato (RC subs are complicated!).


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