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 Author  Topic: They Were Expedible
bubbletop409

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of bubbletop409  Posted on: Jul 12, 2013 - 9:51am
I am only relating what I have read regarding the Huckins boats. On page 30 of United States Navy PT boats of WWII by Frank Johnson there is a bow on picture of PT 95 the first production Huckins boat.

The caption states " The design was found to have some serious handling problems and that is one of the reasons why the Huckins boats were never placed in mass production. They possessed a wide transom which caused the boat to yaw excessively in a following sea. What is more, while proceeding in echelon the following boat had a tendency to fall off of the bow wave of the boat ahead, instead of cutting through it, causing the helmsman to loose control. Other structural deficiencies were found in the boats as well ".

During the " Plywood Derby " PT 69 a Huckins with FOUR Packards was the slowest at 33.8 knots while a 77 Elco was fastest at 39.7 knots on THREE Packards. Also PT 69 suffered several fractured bilge stringers during the test and withdrew.

Larry
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  Frank Andruss

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank Andruss   Send Email To Frank Andruss Posted on: Jul 13, 2013 - 5:05am
Larry, you should understand that there were 2 Plywood derbies, or Navy tests for the boat builders entries for designs. The first plywood derby was held in July 1941. Without making this too long, there were nine boats that started the race. Elco had PT's 20,30,31, and 33. Higgins entered PT's 70 and 6, and his British PT. Huckins entered PT-69 and the Navy had PT-8.

Six of these boats managed to finish the race, with PT-33 and PT-70, having to retire from the race because of structural damage. The Higgins British boat had engine trouble and withdrew. PT-30 had dangerous cracks at frame 45 from the forward port corner of the engine room hatch to the rail, and also at frame 51. One stringer actually splintered and three engine room hold down clamps carried away. PT-33, engine room canopy cracked. The Huckins PT-69 in this first test suffered no damage. in light weather testing, while PT's 70 and 21 had minor failures. Rough weather tests PT-70 suffered extensive damage, with localized damage on PT-69 and PT 21.

In the speed trials Elco topped the list , with PT-20 averaging 44.1 knots with a heavy load, and 45.3 knots with a light load. PT-26 turned over 44.2 knots with a heavy load, but suffered structural failures and could not perform the light-load test. Coming in third was the Huckins boat at 41.5 knots with a heavy load and 43.8 with a light load. Maneuverability tests showed that Huckins PT-69 topped the list turning the tightest circle to port, against the direction of the revolution of the screws, and turned the tightest circle to starboard as well. It should be noted that Elco's PT-20 had the worst average of all the boats in this test.

It is true that in the second Plywood derby, PT-69 was forced to withdraw. Take note that even in the second test that the Elco boat was found to have structural weaknesses with traverse fractures of the deck planking. In short, several of the boats had problems, but engineers worked these problems out, and those problems encountered with these tests were fixed. Elco was the front runner in the speed department no doubt. The board felt that the Huckins boat was satisfactory with a good turning circle and good maneuverability, with little tendency to pound in a seaway. In short the Huckins did meet the standards of the Navy Board. You must also remember that many changes to all of the boats were made before being delivered to the Navy, and Huckins Boats although not very pretty, were a great riding boat that would have found their way into more Squadrons had their Florida plant been able to mass produce them.




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bubbletop409

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of bubbletop409  Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 10:29am
I find it hard to believe that if these boats were so desirable, and the lack of manufacturing facilities was the only draw back, that that problem would not have been rectified immediately.

Why would a company even involve itself in contest so to speak if it was not capable of producing the desired boat in the numbers necessary to meet the Navy's requirements?

North American Aviation, Boeing, Elco, Higgins, Grumman, and the list could fill the page of all the defense contractors that answered the call when our Nations peril was at it's greatest. By building new facilities to out produce the Axis powers, those contractors gave our men the tools to win through to victory.

Question: What is uglier than a Vosper?

Answer: A Huckins.

Just my thoughts on an ugly duckling.

Larry
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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 11:23am

There is no call for this ! ! ! ! !

Lighten up or leave ! ! ! ! !

Dick. . . .




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bubbletop409

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of bubbletop409  Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 12:16pm
I certainly did not feel that expressing an opinion was in violation of some rule. What was so offensive in any of my statements?


Larry
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Frank Andruss

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank Andruss   Send Email To Frank Andruss Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 3:32pm
Larry, Elco invested a million dollars when they built their state of the art Wooden boat building facility, and if not mistaken Higgins Industries spent more. These were huge facilities ( I got to tour Elco's Building 21 in 1998) so I doubt very much that Huckins had the capital to invest in any huge expansion.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges when you compare building PT Boats to Fighter planes or Bombers. US Plants built something like 300,000 planes during WWII, compared to 700 PT Boats. You must also remember that PT Boats were not the US Navy's answer to Victory in the Pacific, Med, or Alaska. They were much more interested in turning out Capital Ships such as Battleships, Carriers, Destroyers, and Subs, not to mention the many Victory Ships they would produce. They did not feel the need to increase facilities for these wonderful wooden boats, as the bulk of the orders were Elco and Higgins PT Boats, These two Companies were far out producing Huckins boats simply because they could, and simply because the majority of the orders were for Elco and Higgins boats from government contracts. Huckins simply did not garner the Government Contracts, nor did they have the political contacts that Elco did.

Mr. Higgins always felt that his boats were better than Elco , even complaining in an Office Memorandum on June 1943 that Elco had political contacts or a lobby in Washington that they did not. His boats could be built cheaper, yet the bulk of the work was going to Elco. In short Larry, their was big time politics involved here, which is one reason Huckins did not get any of the Lions share of the contracts, not simply because of having a small facility, but because the big boys had them boxed in......................


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David Buck

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 5:33pm
Ah Master(Frank) what's your spin on the global recession,

This Grasshopper would wish to know?

Kin hou,

D.buck

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Frank Andruss

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank Andruss   Send Email To Frank Andruss Posted on: Jul 14, 2013 - 5:39pm
Ah Student Buck, "When you can take this Depth Charge from my Hand, it is time for you to leave". I will leave the Global Recession to Master Will Day....................


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David Buck

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Jul 15, 2013 - 5:59pm
Ah Master doth the Torpedo not in truth travel Faster?

Poor Youric to the Solomons you must wander,

D.buck

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Frank Andruss

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank Andruss   Send Email To Frank Andruss Posted on: Jul 15, 2013 - 8:18pm
yes it does Student, but I prefer you leave my Torpedo alone..........


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