| Author |
Topic: Italeri 1/35 PT 109 corrections? |
|
PeterTareBuilder2
MASTER
|
  
Posted on: Mar 7, 2013 - 8:56pm
|
Ahoy there Rock 1947a.
The forward to aft rise on a vessel's sides is called sheer. There is positive sheer which is the sheerling rising from amidships or negative sheer which is lowering from amidships. Normally that is. Now the way I see it (not having the kit yet) if the aft sheer towards the stern on the model is too low then that would throw off the shape of the transom too.
I'm not sure where I saw them, but I think there are drawings that show the hull offsets. Ah, I just found the referenced thread that was shown upthread of this thread and it shows the sheerline but does not give a transverse view of the transom.
What I'd do is find a stern on view (90 degrees) of the transom and then calculate an enlarging or reducing scale % by measuring the kit transom at the waterline and then measuring the transom at the waterline on the image. Then you could easily determine what the scale height of the transom on the model should be.
I hope this helps in some way.
Cheers from Peter
"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too." |
Total Posts: 204 | Joined:
Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm | IP
Logged
|
|
David Waples
TOP BOSS
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 5:19am
|
First let's start with the fact that no kit is perfect. Not every detail will be captured or even captured correctly. Also as we all know with these boats they were constantly in a state of change. With that said let's address what I'm assuming are Stuart Hurley's observations.
Quote:
There's a builder from the UK who has recently told me that there are a number of "errors" in the kit. He did say that some of them are "hold-overs" from the 596 kit ...
Here's what he sent me:
Deck margin planks are raised (kit correct for some later boats) -
Response - Known issue with Italeri. They picked this up in photographs. It is exaggerated. Italeri said they will consider correcting this on future releases. Todd at the Modelshipwrights site offers a method for correcting this in his build thread.
Deck vents lack internal shutters
Response - Look at Jeff's detailed drawings on the PT-103 web site for how to add this detail.
Lack of deck 'kick up' at stern, but this really is a 'nitpick'
Response - Personal choice. In my opinion it's a noticeable difference and Italeri built it this way due to casting restrictions. Most people wont notice it but for me it's worth correcting.
Throttle push rod cover should be a higher section alongside day room for early boats (kit correct for later boats)
Response - I would refer to Jeff's drawings of the control rod covers.
Starboard side day room grab rail should be close up underneath window panels
Response - There's no such thing so without clarification from Stuart I would ignore this.
Day room hatch should be hinged to port and be of wooden construction (?) (kit correct for later boats)
Response - Good observation. The early boats had this hatch hinged on the port side. I've seen a number of photos indicating this.
Rain strip over day room rear window missing.
Response - Another good observation. Easily corrected with strip styrene
Armour should be full length on port side of cockpit (supplied as small etch piece)
Response - Known issue with Italeri. Jeff's updated drawings clearly show how the armor should be. Todd on his Modelshipwrights thread has done a good job correcting this.
Rear turret angle is too great tilting the gun ring too far forward.
Response - I haven't built it yet but the photos that Italeri supplied me look fine to me. This angle was more exaggerated in later boats.
Torpedo tubes are left and right handed with the tripping latch covers on the outside rear of the tubes. They should all be right handed which neccecitates moving the large cast cover to the other side on the port tubes and replacing a section of flange on the pivot. The tripping latch covers need to be filed off and re-built to the rear and slightly off set to the right of the depth setting cover. They should have some great big wingnuts added.
Response - This is incorrect. There is photographic evidence that there are left and right handed hinges for the torpedo tubes.
I have replaced the tri-angular locking plates on the deck at the mouth of the tubes as these are a bit heavy.
Response - Modelers choice. They look okay to me.
The mufflers lack the angle brackets to the hull and the little pipes pointed out in the blog.
Response - Correct. Todd on his Modelshipwrights build has done a good job addressing the brackets. In addition he has come up with an interesting solution to the brackets around the exhaust pipes.
The kit instructions would have you fix the mooring bits (?) ajacent to the 20mm in the wrong sense, that is, across the boat rather than lengthways.
Response - Correct.
|
|
Here's the link to Todd's build thread at Modelshipwrights. If you're interested in building this kit I think you'll find this helpful. If the link doesn't work just go to the forums section and look for "Building Italeri's PT-109: The Last Night"
http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=202180&ord=&page=1
David Waples |
Total Posts: 1679 | Joined:
Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm | IP
Logged
|
|
alross2
TOP BOSS
|
 Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 5:58am
|
Actually, the comment about the tripping levers being incorrect is valid. The tripping levers are not the hinges attached to the breech doors. Rather, they are the devices which tripped the starting lever on the torpedo as it was ejected from the tube. On the top of the first segment of the tube forward of the breech door, you'll see two plates. The aft plate is rectangular and should have two tabs coming off each side. This is the tripping lever cover and the ELCO drawings for the MK 18 tube plus photos show this cover on the starboard side of the tube only.
Al
|
Total Posts: 993 | Joined:
Oct 30, 2006 - 8:19pm | IP
Logged
|
|
Frank J Andruss Sr
TOP BOSS
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 6:57am
|
I for one would like to see photo's showing the incorrect items that have been mentioned. For the model builder seeing the pieces that are not right might help with the build. As Dave has mentioned, no model is ever perfect, but right out of the box, this PT-109 Kit is the best that has ever been on the market. We must also take into consideration, how many people that will be building this model can say they are experts, and will even know the incorrect items mentioned.
Even myself, who is not a model builder, but know plenty about the boats did not see some of these so called problems with the Kit. I often wonder if we are being too critical sometimes, as not everyone building this model knows that much about the boats. I really would like to see one of these completed models, out of the box, which personally I have yet to see.
|
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined:
Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am | IP
Logged
|
|
Will Day
TOP BOSS
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 7:48am
|
I think it is probably not feasable, for tooling costs and other reasons, for Italeri to turn out an absolutely perfect model out of the box. As has been menioned, the vast majority of builders will not know the difference; those with the knowledge and the desire can certainly alter specific details to suit their own tastes. It's called scratch-building, and it's part of what mdel building is all about. I just think it's great that Italeri has given us such a great starting point, and has actually listened to our input.
Will |
Total Posts: 1955 | Joined:
Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm | IP
Logged
|
|
Jeff D
Moderator
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 8:03am
|
I went through a bunch of images I have and found my guess was wrong on the day room hatch opening direction. I found some shots of PT 127 with the hinges to the port: http://www.pt127.org/crew/douglas_rj/photos/pages/UnKnownCrewman_tif.htm and http://www.pt127.org/crew/douglas_rj/photos/pages/RJD_ByHelmets_tif.htm. A shot of PT 131 and later boats all show the hinges mounted aft, so without any proof I'll guess again that the change was between the 127 and 131. If anyone has shots showing the 128-130 boats hinge direction, I'd appreciate a heads up.
I think he means the boat hook, which had different mounting locations on the early boats, on this one:
Starboard side day room grab rail should be close up underneath window panels
David, do you know what images they used that show a raised edge on the deck? The one posted on the build thread looks more like rope or wiring to me. It's on this page: http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=202180&ord=&page=1
Thanks for the clarifying the torpedo tube details Dr. Ross, you are the Master!
Except for the hull, I think Italeri has done a great job on this boat given time and cost considerations. I doubt ANY model is 100 percent accurate. But I don't think we're being too critical in pointing out corrections and details that master modelers like Bridge and David are willing to fix and /or add. After all, if it's not right, it's wrong.
|
Total Posts: 2200 | Joined:
Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am | IP
Logged
|
|
PeterTareBuilder2
MASTER
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 8:34am
|
Avast there me heartiy mates.
There might be a few glitches in the Italeri PT-109 kit but a skilled model builder with decent references and/or advice from members here can correct them. If we start getting discouraged about these relatively minor errors we can always dig out one of those ancient 1/32 scale Lindberg PT-109 kits. Now there was akit wirh lots of MAJOR issues. At least with the Italeri kit we have a very reasonably accurate base to work with.
Cheers
"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too." |
Total Posts: 204 | Joined:
Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm | IP
Logged
|
|
Frank J Andruss Sr
TOP BOSS
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 8:41am
|
Jeff, thanks for those postings of the boat being built. It shows just what is incorrect and what is being done to correct those issues with the Kit. As this builder continues to add to the post it will certainly be a plus so I can point out some issues with Stan when he builds mine.
|
Total Posts: 3497 | Joined:
Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am | IP
Logged
|
|
Rock1947a
New Member
|
Posted on: Mar 8, 2013 - 8:48am
|
Wow! This discussion developed into a wealth of information. The more I learn, the more I'm inspired from this exchange of priceless information.
I feel I should provide a brief explanation of my background and motivation. I'm in no way an expert, but I'm fascinated by military history in general, and the WWII Pacific area operations of the USN and USMC in particular. My modeling interests vary with the subjects I read about. I have considerable experience in building plastic kits, but not so much in scratch building details.
In my humble opinion, the Italeri kit is excellent straight out of the box. No doubt, this forum's members who assisted Itaerli, and Italeri's extraordinary willingness to impliment their suggestions are responsible for such a beautiful product. The potential for super-detailing and conversion is limitless. In fact, from other threads on this forum I understand that Italeri plan to produce a supplemental kit of enhancements for that very reason. I'm surprised at the lack of after-market accessories for this kit so far.
As in any kit, there are a few areas that are constrained by manufacturing methods, time deadlines, and the need to maximize revenue. I'm still not sure which boat I'd like my build to represent, so I'm waiting to see exactly what Italeri includes in their supplemental release. In the meantime, I'm tweaking my kit with what In my estimation are universal minor enhancements.
I'd be remiss if I failed to apologize to Dr. Ross for not asking my question on the Yahoo ELCO 80 group he kindly organized.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ELCO80/[url/]
Although there is some very useful information Dr. Ross and members provided, there hasn't been much recent activity. Do you think I should pose my question there as well, Dr. Ross?
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions. Please keep them coming.
Pete
|
Total Posts: 24 | Joined:
Mar 1, 2007 - 10:56am | IP
Logged
|
|
PeterTareBuilder2
MASTER
|
Posted on: Mar 17, 2013 - 1:54pm
|
Ahoy there.
Partly testing to see if message appears. Index says there was a post made today about 0813 hrs but I only see post to March 8.
Cheers
"Give me a fast boat for we want to get out of harm's way too." |
Total Posts: 204 | Joined:
Dec 8, 2012 - 6:03pm | IP
Logged
|
|
|
