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 Author  Topic: A Question
TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 4:53pm
Mr. Ross ...

Please. I'm totally serious. I don't have that document anymore. My mother was on a cleaning spree a couple of years ago when my father got ill and died ...

Frankly Mr. Ross, after the three years I've had (and especially the past few months) I can't remember what I wrote in my book (s) ... heck, I am lucky if I am able to remember my own name and who I am ...

So, your posting what I said in my book does not help me.

My original question in this thread was a legit one and one asked in earnest ... I'm TRYING to understand something ...


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 5:06pm
That's a cool shot, thanks Ted.

Thank you too Dr Ross, the 2 shots show how much they experimented with this particular boat.



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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 5:43pm
I am pretty sure Stan Pienkowski made this exact boat, showing her with that add on fuel tank. If i find the photos I will post them here...........


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kgretter

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 23, 2011 - 6:18pm
With appropriate respect to the individuals who have done years of research on these matters, allow me to offer a guess here. In answer to the question of why the 196 would be painted differently from her squadron-mates, might I suggest that the Navy needed a test subject and simply chose one. Given that the boats were needed in combat as soon as they were produced, it may have made sense to "borrow" one for a short time to try out new paint schemes, weapons, etc., rather than produce a boat or boats exclusively for testing.
While we're looking at these pictures, I have a question of my own. What are the four boxes mounted along the aft rail?

Thanks,
Keith


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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 4:42am
Keith
Those are ammo lockers, and from the size I would guess they would be holding 40mm ammo and clips. I guess my take here would be "Why not a sharks mouth on the bow"? Why are some boats green, why are some boats gray, why do some have this, and other do not? I learned a long time ago that no two boats were alike. When the boats left the factory, after all the trial's and the Navy got a hold of them, some were changed to suit the needs of the Navy and the Squadrons they were being assigned to.

If we look at all the boats from all the squadrons, not all were identical in what they carried. The Skipper of the boat pretty much had the final say as to what would get placed or removed from the boats. The art work for each boat for instance was usually done by someone with flair for painting and artistry. Remember, not all Squadrons had complete boats. It might have gotten 6 boats, and had to wait for the others. In the meantime, changes might have been instituted during this wait, and those changes might have been in paint schemes, so the boats were brought to Fye's Shipyard for those changes, than shipped to the Squadron. Test boats were randomly picked and used to test heavier weapons before being added to other boats. They always needed to see what worked in order to maintain the speed of the boats, as weight was a constant threat. Trials were always going on at Elco, and I am sure at Higgins as well, in which they probably used one or two as test beds for everything from weapons to paint schemes.

Why some boats were changed to other colors, must have been feedback from the operating Squadrons and the Navy's works manager on site at those plants to institute changes needed to maintain the Squadrons. The Shark's mouth and design was probably something they were trying, or added to the test boat so they could recognize her as such. All of this is my take on things, from looking at documents from Elco showing different tests and weights of everything on the boats.


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TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 8:33am
I MIGHT have credible proof to prove my statement ...

I am currently waiting to hear back ... but, it is Thanksgiving ....


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 8:56am
Keith, I've heard them referred to as Ready Service Lockers or RSL, but I wasn't in the Navy and somebody may be able to provider better information. The 40mm Bofors ammo cans look like this...



You see these littered all over PT's once they started mounting the Bofors on them. I think these are too tall to stand up in the RSL's you see on the deck of this boat. I'm wondering if they lay them down on their sides or if the ammo is removed from the cans and positioned in the RSL in some fashion so that they are ready for use.

Were RSL's used for items other than ammo? Guns as well? We're they water tight? Are they metal or wood on these boats?

Jeff, I see another drawing opportunity for you!

Dave

David Waples

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29navy

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of 29navy  Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 9:50am
These were pretty much the shipping containers for the 40mm. Kind of awkward to act as a RSl. They were usually taken out of these containers and put into something that was easily accessable by the loader or ammo passer. On some of the later boats, you'll see a rack just forward or next to the 40mm. The lockers were just another version of RSLs.



Charlie

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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 10:15am
Just to add to the shark's head muddle; I suppose it could have been a short-lived paint scheme done for promotional photo purposes, since the boat was at one time a test bed anyway.

Will

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 24, 2011 - 11:00am
Hi Charlie,
I probably wasn't clear. I understand that these were shipping and storage containers. But you did answer part of my question which is while in action did the crews pull the ammo from these cans or were they removed in advance and stored in RSL's for quick action.

I have seen one boat where the 40mm ammo containers pictured above were stacked behind the 40mm horizontally and ammo was pulled from there and fed to the Bofors. In other photos I just see them tied on to whatever is handy probably because there's no better place to store them at the time.

I'm really curious how crews would have stored 40mm ammo in these RSL's around the gun. Or did they? I know the later boats had 40mm ammo racks built in behind the gun as you mentioned. From a modeling perspective if I modeled a RSL open, how would the 40mm be stacked in there?

Dave





David Waples

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