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Topic: How many torpedos fired? |
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Randy Finfrock
Advanced Member
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 Posted on: Jul 6, 2011 - 9:22pm
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"Cactus Control" to Bridge:
I did a study of Solomon PT missions a few years back, but it was based mostly on PT Boat Deck Logs of the early rons. Gene Kirkland had shared some of what he had from the National Archives and I did some more digging. My records though only go through early Feb 1943. I doubt after that time that many torpedoes were fired since that was when the Japanese Navy made their last run down the slot. Some of the logs give some good information - however some of them also were lost with the boats which were destroyed in combat - so there are some holes in the records.
The starting dates and the Rons covered in this research: RON-3 Arrived Tulagi - Oct 12 & 25 1942 (PT's 37, 38, 39, 45, 46, 48, 60, 61). RON-2 Arrived Tulagi - Nov 20 & 25, 1942 (PT's 36, 40, 43, 44, 47, 59, 109, 110, 111, 112). RON-6 Arrived Tulagi 31 Dec 1942 (PT's 115, 116, 123,124).
I listed the boats and developed a legend for anything of interest that was noted on the logs:
LEGEND:
P = Patrol
nc = no contact
E = Engaged Enemy
ft = fired torpedoes, and number fired (if known)
fr = fired rounds
ls = lay smoke and retired
O = Observed Action
ps = pick up survivors
rc = recalled, 'Peter Tares' (all Pete Holiday)
sc = sub contact
sb = stand-by duty
47C = identifies another crew on board the named PT
GM = Guard Mail trip (to Guadalcanal)
He = Hit by enemy fire
Hf = Hit by friendly fire
Destr = Destroyed
G = Grounded
D = Disabled
DO = Disabled, Out of Commission
Dryd = Drydocked
MGL = Moored at Government Landing, as member of strike force
UT = Under Tow
uw/R = Underway for the Russell Islands
uw/S = Underway for Sesapi
uw/B = Underway for 'Buttons'
NLE = No Log Entry Available
(A) Here is an example of the EARLIEST RECORD for 4 boats of Ron 3:
The 38 & 46 w/ USS Hovey, the 48 & 60 w/ USS Southard, arrived Tulagi on 12 Oct 1942. The first recorded mission from their deck logs showed all four boats going out on 14 Oct.
PT-38: PE-ft4. intercept enemy ships firing on Guadalcanal.
PT-46: PE.
PT-48: PE-fr. fired 300 rds of 50-cal. At DD, destroying searchlight.
PT-60: PE-ft ls. G-DO. chased by 2 DD's - ran aground on coral reef; hull damaged.
From the above, we can see that the 38 fired 4 torpedoes, and the 60 fired (but the number was not indicated).
(B) Here is what was found for the last visit of the Tokyo Express on 01 Feb 1943 for the boats that I have information on:
PT-36: NLE.
PT-47: PE-ft, ls-ps. Fired salvos at ship 4 mi East of Savo, lost contact. Flare dropped astern, p/u 2 survivors of PT-111.
PT-59: PE. (Mentioned in 115's log).
PT-109: PE-ps. Lt. Westholm. U/W (2125). Obs .50 cal fire from enemy floatplane on patrol near Savo Island (2150). Took patrol station off Lunga Pt. Enemy rept'd sighted headed for Cape Esperance.
PT-111: PE-He, Destr.
PT-37: PE-ft4, Destr. ft at DD, hit by 5-inch shell expl. gas tanks, all but one lost.
PT-39: P-nc, ps. p/u survivors Blake & Ens. Connolly of PT-115.
PT-45: NLE. [DO. 08 Jan 1943, left drydock; out of commission]
PT-46: NLE.
PT-48: PE-ft4, ls, G. Lt Gamble. Plane bombed 200 yds to port, no damage. Fired torp (2235), retired under smoke, beached boat, abandoned ship.
PT-115: PE-ft4, he-G. bombed by planes. separated. from 59, but went ahead to patrol sta. w/ 37. Ft2, obs 2 hits. Obs 3 more DD's 2-mi W. of
Visale, ft2, results unk due to heavy shellfire. E. to Cape E. at Full. Smoke Gen failed. Obs 3 more enemy ships, (continued)
PT-123: PE. Destr. Destroyed by enemy aircraft.
From the above, the 37, 47, 48 and 115 fired torpedoes. As can be seen from other known action, it was a very bad night for the Tulagi PT's.
This likely doesn't address your question about 1943, but I thought it interesting enough to share.
Randy Finfrock |
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TheBridge
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jul 7, 2011 - 4:23pm
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Nice work Randy!
I am hearing that although most PTs (in the Solomons) fired few torpedoes there was one rare time when a lot were fired. I don' think there is an 'official' count however on the night of August 2/3 1943 there many have been as many as 30 to 35 torpedoes fired by numerous PTs; no sinkings of enemy ships although some know to have been dead on target.
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Randy Finfrock
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jul 7, 2011 - 8:37pm
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I've enjoyed compiling loads of information and plan soon to slow my researching, and begin writing in earnest, the story of my father-in-law's time in the Navy in WWII, particularly PT's. Some information I was able to gain directly from him and some from crew mates and others that were in the same Ron's. That first-hand information is the best of course.
Here is the background on him: Bill Tatroe, RM3c was at Tulagi in the early days (Ron-2, and assigned to the PT-47, arriving 11/20/1942 and departing 4/7/1943 (the day of the big air raid - and the day that Kennedy was inbound on an LST).
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Bridge, you mentioned the torpedoes being on target, but no sinkings... I had specifically asked Bill about that. Below is his answer to a question exactly as he typed them in an email to me on 26 March 2003.
(Q) When did people start to realize that some of the torpedoes the boats were firing at the Japanese may have been duds?
Ans: "When they hit the Jap Ships and didn’t go boom! Also we found them floating around in the water when it got light enough to see. We usually sank them with rifle fire."
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That same year I was able to record a conversation with Bill, 28 July 2003 at his home in Rockport, TX. This is some more on torpedoes; I was following up on the fact that he'd told me that they floated and I found that interesting:
Q: “Did that happen quite often; since some didn’t go off?”
A: “Well they didn’t sink – they ran; they expended their fuel and instead of sinking like they should’ve - they were defective torpedoes – so, all we had out there was bad torpedoes."
"Whoever thought of firing them out of tubes … every time you fired one of those fish out of a tube, why - the oil that collected in the tube ignited – and it’d have a big flash - it was drained oil that was left over in the tube... that burned.”
Q: So, what was a ‘hot run’ – how would you describe when they had a ‘hot run’ in a tube?”
A: “Oh, … the torpedo prop was running, and it’d never gotten out of a tube – well that torpedo goes so long – and, then it arms itself – doesn’t have to be in the water.”
Q: So what did you do in those cases?”
A: ”Well, generally speaking, they went on and put another charge in it – and, it discharged again – and that’d push it out.”
Q: “So, when a torpedo fired and didn’t leave the tube, it was called a ‘hot run’. You’ve described what it was – why didn’t they work well?
A: “Oh, that was so discouraging – none of those fish going off! They were… a lot of them, were defective.”
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Another time this subject came up when Bill was addressing the Tulsa Gun & Military Club, at Ollie’s Station Restaurant, Thursday, 7 Aug 2008. Here are some excerpts from that talk:
"One of the worst things at Tulagi was the torpedoes malfunctioning. Our torpedoes were launched out of long tubes, four to a boat; I think they were called Mark VIII’s. Later, they used torpedoes that rolled off the side.
Anyway, when the flash went off it could easily give away your position. While on patrol in the middle of nowhere, it was the ‘blackest black you’ll ever see.’ So any light whatsoever could be sighted quite easily.
When a torpedo is armed, the TNT stinks so bad and it sends a cloud into the air."
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Finally, here is a link to an excellent article "World War II in the Pacific, 1942 - Dud Torpedoes" -- Fire in the Sky by Eric Bergerud.
>> SOURCE: http://www.ww2pacific.com/torpedo.html
If you can't bring it up, let me know and I can email the document to you.
Randy Finfrock |
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Mark Culp
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jul 8, 2011 - 6:43pm
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Randy,
Send me your email address. Kellymark@fuse.net.
Rons 1, 2 and 3.
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TheBridge
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jul 9, 2011 - 5:58pm
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Randy - can you send me your email address as well to: bridge@PT-157.com
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