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Topic: Loading Ammo Belts for .50-cal |
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CJ Willis
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jul 28, 2009 - 10:10am
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The fuelng situation was bad when we were based at Vella La Vella and Treasury. It improved at Green because we fueled at a dock at the end of the air strip. The fuel was kept in tanks and not barrels, piped down to the dock and was much cleaner. I have described on here previously the fueling at Vella La Vella where the boat crews had to help with unloading the drums from the delivering L.C. T.'s. Wrestling 55 gallon drums filled with 100 octane in waist deep water is no easy chore. The fueling situation at Vella La Vella did result in a fire on December 14, 1943 which completly burned the base and all of our Ron 19 supplies as well as P.T. 239 which was at the small dock refueling. We also lost two base force men in the fire.
C. J. Willis |
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Allan
MASTER
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 Posted on: Jul 28, 2009 - 7:09pm
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Bob, CJ, Etc:
You fellas all have much to be proud of- you served in a way that few were asked to. No- I wasn't there, but I have interviewed several of the Div 17 guys. I have put together almost 300 pages of information and am still going strong. I hope that I can publish this sometime so that all may enjoy it. I have some personal diary stuff, boat logs, action reports, war diary and personal recollections. My father never talked about it until he was about 75- then he never stopped and I recorded him. Lots of material, not everything has checked out exactly as he described but it was his best recollection. What I have found from many of the Div 17 guys was that most of the patrol stories have all kind of run together into one large story. But what has actually been very rewarding is when I find an official reference to what is being described by one or more of the fellas. Then I can put dates on it and provide the detail necessary to actually tell the story as a single event. That doesn't happen often, but when it does- Oh, Boy !! Very satisfying. It's all coming together- I have entries for every day that Div 17 existed- puting it together in kind of a "diary" form. No other wat to handle all the bits and pieces of information. After "At Close Quarters" was written, so much stuff and official douments were destroyed- what a shame, actually. But I have found some good stuff that Capt. Bulkley either didn't find or didn't bother with Translation: He didn't destroy it, either.
I work on it every night!! It's become my "fun".
The Best to all you "Originals".
Allan (2nd Gen PT 113, Ron 5, 2, 6, Div 17, 8)
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Wayne Bauer
New Member
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Posted on: Jul 30, 2009 - 9:24am
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Allan, not wanting to get off topic, but you mention "Div 17".
Were Div 17 and Ron 17 different entities?
I saw where in Curtis Nelson's book "Hunters in the Shadows" he described the formation of Division 17 as "Squadron Two at Quadalcanal detached two boats for this expanded area of operations. Newly arriving Squadron 6 provided 4 more. Together they created Division 17..."
I've always been somewhat confused between what was Division 17 versus Ron 17.
I'm sure someone out there can set me straight on this.
thanks
Wayne
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Allan
MASTER
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Posted on: Jul 30, 2009 - 1:51pm
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Ron:
Division 17 was made up in the States in August of 1942. The commanders took two boats from Ron 2 (PTs 113 and 114) and four boats from Ron 6 (PTs 119, 120, 121 and 122) and designated that as Div 17. They were the only boats that they felt they could spare from the action in the Solomons and still make some kind of effort at keeping the Japanese from making any progress through New Guinea and onto mainland Australia. It was felt that it would be much better both militarily and politically to make the stand on the island of N.G.
Div 17 was sent in there with little preparation, little support and little expectation of success. It is a story in itself- and I'm working on that!
Allan
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Allan
MASTER
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Posted on: Jul 30, 2009 - 1:53pm
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Sorry- I meant "Wayne". Apologies all around !!
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jul 30, 2009 - 10:16pm
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Hey guys back to the 50 caliber loading sequence, I spoke to several of the PT vets at the PT 658 group and a couple said they did not like to use tracers at all since it was a shining beacon for them to shoot back at. These 2 particular vets were both in New Guinea on PT Boats, and they preferred to use NO TRACERS. I can see their logic. Just another point of view since Bob and CJ and QM were also on the front lines and know their policy on their boats. Most of their missions were at night and I can see how using tracer ammo could give your enemy a frame of reference for shooting back right at you. Just a thought...Jerry
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BobPic
New Member
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Posted on: Jul 31, 2009 - 5:40am
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We were constantly aware of the danger of giving the enemy our position by opening fire first. However, the blaze from the gun muzzles was a much brighter and more precise positioning than tracers. Without tracers there was no way of telling where your bullets were going, especially when more than one source was active. I served as 50 cal gunner as a backup assignment and can not imagine aiming by just pointing the guns in the general direction of the enemy. Shooting at planes compounded the picture. There would be no splashes or other indication of where your shots were going. Our policy was to have a trusty tracer bullet at LEAST every four shells and we often sneaked a fer in between, especially at the front end of the belt. No tracers? For us that would mean no hits!
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BobPic
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Posted on: Jul 31, 2009 - 6:47am
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...also..
The tracer material was situated inside a depression or hole in the tail end of the bullet. It was very visible to the gunner immediately behind it. But we were shot at many times and I remember the gun flashes vividly but can't remember ever seeing tracers incoming.
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CJ Willis
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jul 31, 2009 - 7:49am
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Bob; I am like you, I don't know how you would know where you were shooting without tracers. I do recall very well tracers coming our way from barges. I remember hunkering up in my turret to make the least possible target. Those incoming tracers looked like they were coming right at you then would ver off at the end. Some did hit the boat but we were fortunate that none hit any our crew.
C. J. Willis |
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Jeff D
Moderator
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Posted on: Aug 1, 2009 - 12:18pm
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Thanks guys, your stories are invaluable and give me a small insight of what the war in the Pacific was like. Thank you for coming here and sharing with us your time over there.
What a waste with the fuel fires, I'm amazed there weren't more after reading what sometimes went into refueling. It's a good thing PT hulls weren't sparkable steel.
Bob, I had this pic from a 1942 cartridge manual that illustrates your description:
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