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Topic: Higgins cut-away drawing update |
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Dick
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 Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 1:00pm
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JIM . . . See if this plan view fits the bill, I think I got everything. I'll use these components to build the PT-209 poster art after I get the PT-658 poster done.
See the image below and/or download a "PDF" version with this link:
http://www.gdinc.com/PT-209R.pdf
Dick . . . .
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 3:02pm
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Hi Dick,
All I can say is WOW! I am overwhelmed with your awesome drawings and the unsurpassed level of details they show. Also, thank you for making the decision to draw PT658. All of the veterans and crew here in Portland will be very proud and priveledged to show this masterpiece drawing alongside the real thing when and wherever we go. I will bet the drawing will garner a lot more understanding and interest in the PT boat as well from the general public and from veterans alike. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Jerry PT658 Portland
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newsnerd99
New Member
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Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 4:41pm
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Dick...that is incredible! Thank you so much for sharing your time and talent. I also wanted to thank you for sparking something new for me to research as far as my grandfather's boat.
I dug and dug trying to find a photo of the 209 with those two .30's...and the closest I came was this photo of MoMM Dick Kiley standing in the engine room hatch...is that a .30 hiding under the canvas tarp to the left?
I found what I guess is the best view of the stern of the 209...what is that "barrell" on the port edge against the rear cleat? Is it a depth charge or something else? I never paid it any mind until having to focus on every inch of the boat for your graphics.
And finally...it looks like those .30's were temporary...in photos of the boat before Pop was "in country" (pre-May 1944) don't show the guns mounted. Photos from after Operation Dragoon don't show them either (see below, TM Henry Beazley standing next to an "old" torpedo, sometime in the summer or early fall of 1944) so maybe they were added for the invasion? Maybe they were added because of the close-in fights some of the PT crews had in June and July? I dunno!
The other thing is the flash hiders on the twin .50's that the 209 had...I don't ever seem to see them anywhere else (you can see them in the top right corner of the photo above). Was that just on in many mods the Navy tried during the war? Seems to me that it would only help the gunner keep his night vision...the enemy would still be able to see a good-sized flash.
Here's that profile photo of PT 210 (thanks Steve Nugent!) that was taken after the boat was repaired from its Elba shootout. You can see the hull repair under the brudge, and all the same armaments as the 209 in my previous post.
Thanks again Dick! It's given me a great reason to pour through old photos again and that PDF is fantastic! Any idea how big I can print it before there is a loss of quality? I really appreciate it!
And as one last note...this is my 209th post...how appropriate.
Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 5:50pm
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Newsy,
That cylindrical object on the stern in my opinion is most likely the 35 gallon titanium tetrachloride smoke generator tank. All you do was open the valve and it smokes for quite a while with great clouds of billowing white smoke. Jerry
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:57pm
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Jerry, Jim . . . .
Thanks, and you guys are very welcome.
Dick
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:58pm
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Hi Jim,
Photo one, boy you know, it looks like the old tripod use on the forward deck of early ELCO 77's. But a closer look it appears to be on the boat next the 209. The tripod is nearly touching the aft portion of that boats' bridge structure.
Photo two, I agree with Jerry's comment, it look as if there wee two one on each aft side. photo you posted with all the identifiers clearly show one on the aft starboard side.
Photo three, the photo clearly show a clean deck, no additional machine guns. That is one of the problems when tiring to draw these boats. I've been creating an Illustrated Guide of boat configurations showing a deck plan then a Isometric view (3-D). Of course these configurations come from photos published in book and on the internet. As you know the same boat maybe shown in multiple places at different times during the war, and more then likely a different configuration can be seen in each of these photos. Instead of showing all three I usually picked the most interesting.
Back to configuration:
The photo below shows what appears to be some type of pipe support.
This photo I found on your site as the 209, it surprisingly shows Dual fifty's right behind the roll-off rack. I've read in the past, the erly use of 30's were replaced with 50's because the early guns were ineffective.
This photo I found on your site, it shows a pipe type weldment to the roll-off rack, I've this type of arrange before. It is what I'm basing the 209 on.
Dick . . . . .
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newsnerd99
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Posted on: Oct 27, 2008 - 12:27am
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Thanks guys...I didn't know there were two.
Dick...thanks for pointing out things I never noticed before! I saw that picture of "Punchy" on a single machine gun, but that never stood out to me before. Is that a .30 or a .50? The bore looks pretty big in the photo; that and the spade grips...I just assumed it was a .50.
That photo of the engine change was put at that spot on the website because I was talking about engine upgrades; it was actually taken on either Samar or more likely Mindoro, PI in 1945 (Ron 23). That being said, those twin .50's on the side have the same flash hider as the 209 - very interesting!
Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net
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Frank J Andruss Sr
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Oct 27, 2008 - 11:49am
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I think what we have here is one awesome thing. If any of us could have are very own numbered PT BOAT CUTAWAY DRAWING, it would just be priceless. As gifts, they would certainly brighten up any of those PT BOATERS who served on a Boat.
I would love to have my very own drawing of Ron 27's PT 374. As this is the next model to be bulit for me by Alex Johnson, the drawing next to the model in an Exhibit would be super. Dick, in my opinion, you have hit a home run here. The drawings look great, and the weapons and deck equipment to choose from is spectacular. The work you have put into this project is no doubt a labor of love, which all of us here appreciate........
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Oct 28, 2008 - 4:09pm
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Frank J . . . .
You sly snake-oil salesman -
Thanks, you always have kind words to say, they are very appreciated as well as your friendship.
"Labor of Love", yeah, it really has been (is, I mean). It would be nice to have more time to spend on all the drawings, but sadly employment all ways seems to get in the way. However without making a living, I'd be hard press to buy all the blueprints I need to create this labor of love. It can get quit expensive overall, and my wife is sweet enough to let me indulge as long as the mortgage gets paid first (hey, maybe I can apply for a “Bail-Out” – it seem Congress is more then happy to send out checks now days.) With costs aside I think it’s more important to develop these for at least historical value if nothing else. These types of drawings just don’t exist and are really needed to show and educate others about PT Boats. On the education front Alyce (Headquarters) uses a large print of the ELCO 80’ as an education tool on her school lecture tours.
Thanks again and thanks to all message boards whom always seem to have nice words, they are always very appreciated.
Dick . . .
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Dick
Moderator
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Posted on: Oct 28, 2008 - 10:42pm
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Jim & Jerry
Below is an image that shows four configurations of the Aft Storage/Crew Compartment. Two are confirmed by drawings and two possibilities from photos. Please let me know which configuration will fit your boats. The Higgins like the ELCO boats probably configured the area as increase crew sizes were needed as armament increased.
Dick . . .
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