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 Author  Topic: Working on new cut-away for the Higgins boats
Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Aug 18, 2008 - 4:46pm

Working on new cut-away for the Higgins boats

As some of you might know, Ive been back at working on new drawings for the Higgins boats. The most detail engineering drawing information I have available (purchased thru headquarters) centers around the Higgins series PT 71-94. I have the Outboard Profile/Deck plans, Inboard Profile/Arrangement plans, along with the Transverse Cross Sections for Water Tight Bulkheads at; #9 LFWD (looking forward), #19 LFWD, #19 LAFT, #26 LAFT, #30 LFWD, #30 LAFT, #46 LFWD, #46 LAFT and #51 LFWD.

Here is the dilemma Ive run into:
Some of the Bulkhead sections do not agree with the Arrangement plan. As well as the Arrangement plan differing from the actual typical Higgins arrangement. All drawings are in the same relative date range (July & August 1942.) Drawing do not reflect any option notes or used-on notes, which generally indicates "build as shown". Need to determine if this difference were engineering errors or option features available ro customer. Drawings show furniture (desks) built in not free standing. The images below are not Higgins drawings but recreation of the original Higgins Drawings.

1.) Arrangement shows the Crews Cabin (forward Bulkheads #9 thru #19) as having four upper bunks but the lower area with a narrow transom seat instead of wider (typical) lower bunks.






2.) Arrangement shows a Storage Area (aft, Bulkheads #46 thru #51) but the Transverse Cross Sections for Bulkhead #51 and #56 show four bunks (two upper and two lower.)

3.) Arrangement shows Aft Fuel Tank Area as two 700 gal. fuel tanks (outer port and starboard) with a narrow room between the two tanks containing at minimum another much smaller tank (50 gal generator fuel tank) however, the Cross Section drawings showing Bulkhead #46 thru #51 showing a Crews Head for an Aft Bunk area as described earlier in # 2.






4.) Arrangement does not show a 2nd officers desk and bookcase (it does show one for the skipper) however the Cross Section for Bulkhead #26 looking aft shows a smaller desk and book shelve for the 2nd officer.








Questions:
1.) On the early Higgins (PT 71-94), was there an aft Bunk Area?
2.) On the later Higgins (PT 197 - on), was there an aft Bunk Area?
3.) On later Higgins with increased crews sizes because of increase armament, was there the aft Bunk Area and Head?
4.) On the early Higgins (PT 71-94) was the Crews Bunk area modified to include the standard 4 lower bunks?
5.) On the early Higgins (PT 71-94) - (both the Cross Section and Arrangement drawings agree on the skippers area, it did included a larger desk and book shelve) however, was there a desk and book shelve for the 2nd officer?
6.) On the later Higgins (PT 197 - on), was there a desk and book shelve for the 2nd officer?

Just as a note, The creations of the three dimensional drawings typically require three views, a top, side and front of each component making up the item being illustrated. In the case of drawing the PT boats, Im limited to the few meager drawing available. With the Higgins, just like my 80 and 77 ELCOs drawings, Im limited to Hull lines, an Inboard and Outboard profile, a Deck and Below Deck Arrangement, and Bulkhead Sections. Along with this meager drawings selection I view all the photos I can find in published books and the Internet to help resolve and/or better define an area Im illustrating. However there are few good internal photos of the wartime Higgins. I have studied the photos at Save the PT Boat site as well as the photos from William Maloney nice site showing the boat (PT 796) at Battleship Cove. But the above questions are still unanswered.

Thanks for any help,
Dick . . .






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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Aug 18, 2008 - 8:48pm
Hi Dick,
I know you may already have seen these photos but on our PT boats photobucket account I have those photos of PT631 builders photos
http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/ptboats/PT631%20Higgins%20Builders%20Photos/
which shows several interior shots. I labelled most of them as to what you are looking at.

Also, in the aft crews head, under the floorboards was a 50 gallon water tank. I dont think it was a gas tank anyway. Also, the 2nd officers small desk space is filled with the power supply (Motor Generator, Voltage Regulator, and Filter) for the SOA or SO3 Radar set. They also put in a ventilation exhaust hood directly above it. I suppose on early boats there may be a desk.

Dick have you looked at the excellent blueprints online in the Louisiana Digital Library's Higgins Industries Collection? Here is the link
http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/ Then choose Browse Collections by and Collection Name then choose Higgins Industries After that choose Browse Items in this collection and a whole list of hundreds of blueprints will come up. Then it is up to you to pick and choose the correct ones. They have blueprints from both early and late boats all mixed together, and the PT Sub Class label will usually define what number boats the drawing applies to. I hope this will be helpful, I know it has been very useful to us in restoring the PT658 to its builders specifications. Jerry Gilmartin PT658 Portland OR

Jerry Gilmartin

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newsnerd99

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Aug 19, 2008 - 12:34am
Great work Dick!

2.) On the later Higgins (PT 197 - on), was there an aft Bunk Area?

Yes...PT 209 had at least two bunks in the Lazerette. Henry Beazley, a TM on the 209, had his bunk here. He's told me stories about how he couldn't be there while the engines were running and it was obscenely hot there while in port during the summer, so he slept on the deck a lot. I don't know a head count...I could call him and ask if you'd like.

Also FYI - this was how the boat was outfitted July-October, 1944.

Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net

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Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Aug 19, 2008 - 9:51am
Hey Dick!
Also I forgot to mention in my earlier post, that I want to be first in line for purchasing several of these prints when you are done so we can display them in our museum! Also, the aft crews quarters had 4 bunks you can see them in both the drawings and the photos. Also, I am positive that at least on PT238 where one of our PT Veterans Maury Hooper was stationed, had 2 bunks in the Lazarette. He slept in one of them. They needed to be able to sleep 16 crew due to the additional weapons they had installed on the boat
(more guns installed = more crew needed to fire and reload them)
Anyway keep up the good work! And let me know if you have a chance to look at the LDL!
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 restoration crew,
Portland OR

Jerry Gilmartin

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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Aug 19, 2008 - 9:51am

Thanks guys.

Jerry, two lower deck arrangement plans (one for PT 71-94 and PT 265-313) show and label the tank in the Aft Head as Generator Fuel Tank. However the cross section for that bulkhead #46 does show two 50 gallon water tanks, they are positioned extreme outboard of the 700 gal fuel tanks. They are mounted up high near the bottom side of the deck.

Thanks for reminding me about the PhotoBucket section. I had been to the Portland site but forgot all the great shot you put on PhotoBucket.


I've been to http://louisdl.louislibraries.org but the servers are so busy it's almost useless. When I do click on a good source drawing I usually get the dreaded "Server has TIme Out" or "Server not Responding". But I will keep trying.

It just donned on me , like all of the other PT boat mods, its probably depends on what time frame during the war as to how the boats were configured or how large of a crew. But I still wanted to nail down the Aft Section and whether or not there was a bunk/head area or not.

If you think of anything more or run across something please keep me posted

Thanks again guys,
Dick . . . .




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