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 Author  Topic: Weighted Pouch
Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 12:19pm
Hello Message Board:

I was wondering. If a PT BOAT was damaged and might be sunk, or some other mishap occured, did the boat have a weighted pouch that the skipper could throw in important papers and let them sink to the bottom? Always wondered about that espically if the crew was in danger of being captured. I had heard there was a charge on board that could burn the boat, but Iam not even sure that was the case.


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 2:09pm
There was a demo charge, Frank. Look under the chair in your office...

Will

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 3:09pm
TO LATE WILL, BOoooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 4:18pm
Hi Frank, I know I have read something about this before in Bulkley's "At close quarters" so I researched it and found this: On page 240-241

"On the night of May 2, 1944 PT's 114 and 144 sank two barges and damaged four more on the beach west of Bogia Harbor. # hours later, at 0130, the 114 went aground on a fringing reef 400 yards offshore from Yarin, on Kairiru Island. The 114 jettisoned its torpedoes and depth charges, and at 0630 was pulled off the reef by the 144. Preparations had been made to abandon ship, and by the time the boat was freed, the crew of the 114 had carelessly permitted a raft containing the boats codes and other confidential publications to drift away. As soon as the boats returned to the tender and reported their loss, LCDR Leeson set out to recover the pubs in PT129. With the 129 was the PT134. Late in the afternoon the boats sighted the raft on the beach at Yarin. With knowledge that the Japanese had big guns nearby, and in full view of a native village and a japanese military lean-to within 600 yards of the raft, Bob Leeson swam 400 yards across the reef in daylight to tow the raft back to the waiting PT's. The publications were intact. Ten minutes after Leesons return, a 3 inch gun opened fire on the boats from a position half a mile from Yarin."

So it would seem that surely they would have been placed inside some sort of weighted canvas bag with grommet holes to allow water in and air out to ensure it sinks. I have seen these "sink bags" on my modern day ship when I was on active duty, but I have never seen one that was used on a PT boat in WW2. But you must be correct Frank, they would certainly have had such a thing. I wonder if the PT SOP and Doctrine book on the HNSA website or maybe the pamphlet Know your PT Boat has anything about these "destruction sinker bags" Maybe a PT Radioman or Radar Operator would know? Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

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newsnerd99

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 4:20pm
Cool story Jerry - thanks for sharing that one.

Grandson of James J Stanton
RON 15 PT 209 and RON 23 PT 243
Check out: www.pistolpackinmama.net

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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 4:34pm
Oh yeah Frank, one more thing, I am certain that the IFF Transponder called the BK (or ABK) had a destructor switch that caused two small explosives charges to blow up and destroy the vacuum tubes etc inside the ABK unit. These two charges were not very large, perhaps the size of a golf scorecard pencil, so they wer not powerful enough to scuttle the entire boat, but only to ensure complete destruction of the interior components of the ABK. The ABK unit itself was roughly the size of 1 cubic foot. On the Higgins PT625 class, I have seen blueprints of the Radar System which specifies this "destructor circuit" I think you can find it on the Loisiana Digital Library Higgins Industries Collection. I am pretty certain the 80 foot Elcos would have used an almost identical setup as what they had on the Higgins boats. The IFF units were common to both ships and boats and aircraft and subs. In fact i found a photo of an actual ABK Unit located on the USS Pampanito (WW2 sub museum in San Fran) website. I hope this info is helpful. Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

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QM

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jun 25, 2008 - 7:55pm
There was a built-in charge to destroy the IFF if needed to prevent capture. I never saw or heard of any weighted bags to sink documents or any explosive charge to destroy a boat to prevent capture. You have probably read reports of boats destroying another boat by gunfire when the boat could not be pulled off a reef. The gunfire could be used to set the boat on fire. Reports regarding the death of Cy Taylor state that he was flooding the bilges with gasoline in preparing to destroy his boat which was grounded a reef. He was mortally wounded by premature ignition of the gasoline.


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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Jun 26, 2008 - 2:30pm
Found my copy of "Know Your PT Boat" . At Jerry's suggestion checked it out and dicovered on page 30 and 31 entitled Abandon Ship Drill and decided to scan it.





Wayne Traxel

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jun 26, 2008 - 3:26pm
Wayne:

Thanks, and to think I have several of those publications. I think I need to read up on my PT BOOKS. So much information, that sometimes you do forget. Nice to see that even the small boats had a weighted bag or case to deep six important papers..........


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jun 26, 2008 - 3:44pm
It sounds like we need to look at pp45-46 of the MTB Communications Manual for more info about destroying sensitive material and seeing a "desruction bill". Anybody know where we could find one? Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

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