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 Author  Topic: As Requested an Enlargement of unknown ELCO 77'
Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Mar 21, 2008 - 12:24pm

Here is another enlargement of Barge Y700 off-loading



Enlargement of Barge Y700 Off-Loading unknown 77' ELCO PT



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29navy

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of 29navy  Posted on: Mar 21, 2008 - 5:33pm
Here's a picture looking over the north side of MTBSTC. Note the 77-footer to the left. I think it is the one that is on the YC-700.



Here's a close-up (I hope).



Charlie

Charlie

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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 10:05am
Hello Dick,

Once again thank you for taking the time to lighten up the enlarged Mystery 77 footer. It does resemble the latest picture provided by Charlie

Found these photos one is a PT40 something underway. Can't distinguish what the second number is, looks like a 6 to me but might be an 8 . At any rate this boat closely resembles the mystery boat on barge YC700.

The is second photo is also a second series boat that has the storage bin and the unique depth charge rack found on the mystery boat and the under way PT. Also PT-38 appears to have the same type of depth charge rack. Could you enlarge the underway boat to see if you can to identify this craft.

Thanks again for all the time you are putting in on this message board.








Wayne Traxel

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 10:15am
Wayne

I noticed in the photo you scanned of PT 40 with the sailor in the 50 mount. I see the old style ammo cans on both sides of the 50's. I thought they had changed that style by then to the ammo boxes on the inside of the turett. When did they change over to the more advanced type ammo feed on the 77 footers, and did some of them keep the original ammo boxes on the sides of the guns.....


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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 2:34pm
Hi Wayne . . .




PT-46 or PT-48 that is the $64,000.00 question. Best I can do with out having my grubby little hands on the actual photograph and scan the number area only at about 600 DPI and at 1000 percent.




Best I can do with low resolution images. Looks to be long steel rails running from the stiffening beam to the outboard edge of the deck. Maybe intended for two cans???

Dick . . .




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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 6:30pm
Hello Frank,

This mount was on Ron 3(2) PT's 36, 37, 38, 39 and 40 of the 20-44 series 77 footers and PT's 45, 46, 47 and 48 of the second series when they were shipped to Guadalcanal in the fall of 1942. I've also seen this mount on PT's 30 and 42. And I'm sure other 77 footers had them as well.

Until I viewed your photos featuring a stack of these stripped down mounts I never knew how well they made. Made from welded tubular frame with a small back rest and no counter weight they were designed to accept the gun cradles from the Dewandre mount.

PT's 59, 60 and 61 also of Ron 3 (2) had the Bell Mk-17 mounts when shipped to the Solomons. PT's 62 through 68 also received the Bell MK-17 mount.

I do know that PT 47 & 48 retained these earlier mounts when they were brought back to the US in August of 1944. Judging from your excellent Melville photos featuring that stack of stripped down mounts and the photo of PT-38, it seems that other 77 footers retained these mounts too.

I want to thank you Frank, for sharing those marvelous Melville Photos. It was very enlightening to see photos I had never seen before.

My thanks to Dick featuring Franks photos and for granting our many requests for photo enlargements.

I also want to thank Charlie for his photos and enlargments.

This has really been great.

Wayne Traxel

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comcardiv1

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 7:33pm
Guys. these pictures are great--thanks again.

There is a fuzzy photo of PT 38 in the photo section of my website that shows that same depth-charge setup. I believe that it was a field-modification, made for a single charge. I also believe at least one Elco 80-footer had this setup installed too--basing that on a photo I saw at PT Boats HQ years ago--wished I had scanned it...memory's too fuzzy these days.

Those twin .50 mounts were manufactured by Colt (according to a statement in Norman Friedman's "Small Combatants") as a replacement for the Dewandre mounts. Apparently there were two problems that surfaced way early in the PT program with the Dewandre turrets--their hydraulic mechanisms (which were too slow) and the small ammo boxes (it was said the early ones only carried 27 rounds per gun, enough for one burst.) The PT officers wanted a better gunnery system, and the Colt mounts were the interim result until the Bell turrets we are all familiar with were introduced. The Colt mounts were installed mostly in the Squadron Two 77-footers that were at the New York Navy Yard fitting out between September-November 1941, but as Wayne pointed out, PT's 30 and 42 of Squadron One also had them fitted. Ihave been looking for technical info on this mounting system for years, but so far nothing (save these excellent pictures) has turned up.

Gene K.


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 8:50pm
Wayne;
That photo is of PT 48, taken October 8, 1943. I recieved this same photo from Ken. It is a photo in a series of four or five(of which I have four) that I know of. The other boats sailing next to her in this series which you don't see in this photo are PT 59(JFK) as a Gunboat and PT 171(LT. Arthur Berndtson) from RON 10. Ken told me he took these photos from a PB4Y-1 out of Henderson Field. Probably VB 104. Anyway Ken told me they took aerial these photos to familiarize local pilots with the look of PT Boats underway. They had a number of "friendly fire" incidents between PT's and our aircraft (ie: PT 164, 166, and 168, attacked by Army B-25's on 20 July 1943 in Ferguson Passage, 30 September 1943 PT 126(Lt Craig Smith) was damaged by F4U-1 piloted by 1st Lt Robert Alexander USMC VMF -214 BLACKSHEEP in another tragic "friendly fire" incident, off Ropa Point, Kolombangara Island. PT 116 and Huck Wood in PT 124 were also on this mission.), and this was supposed to hopefully put an end to all of this. I also have heard that pilots were "invited" to go on familiarization rides on the PT's.
Take care,
TED


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comcardiv1

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 22, 2008 - 10:16pm
Ted,

Can you send me a scan of the four photos you have?

Thanx,
Gene K.


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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: Mar 23, 2008 - 12:15am
Thanks Gene,

Excellent! Now I know that Colt made the replacement twin 50 mounts for the 77 footers.




Wayne Traxel

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