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 Author  Topic: Color Photos
TGarth Connelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 4, 2008 - 3:32pm
Ted -

Thank you for the clarafication about what boat's next to the 109. Can you contact me offsite?

Garth

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 4, 2008 - 10:02pm
Hi Drew,

I really think those are covers. The Mark VIII sits much further back in the tube. As an example look at the tube on page 80 of Frank's book. The tube doesn't have the cover on it but is instead covered with canvas and the torpedo does not pertrude out the end of the tube. Also look at the 61 boat. It too has a cover that look to be a little longer than the ones seen on 80' boats. It looks like it is brass with a nice patena forming on it. The front end of the tubes on the 80' boat look like they were either just painted or just cleaned. But they are very bright looking and they seem to match the plates on the ends of the depth charges.

If you go back and look at Frank's book again some tubes have covers that are held in place with knobs and others are held in place with the method you described which is the triangular plate and wire. Others don't seem to have anything. Perhaps one of our vets can explain how they were held in place where we don't see the knobs and plates.

The triangular "positive lock" Frank describes is that piece mounted on the deck and matched at the bottom of the tube. It is locked into place when retracted and then when extended. I'm not sure what holds it in place but there is a hole in both pieces so it's probably a bolt or pin of some sort. I defer to our vets on this point as well. A nice photo of the tube in the locked out position is in Frank's book on page 103.

Also look at some of the early 103 class boats like the 107 in Frank's book. The ends of the tubes are often covered with canvas. I wonder what that's about.

Here's something else pretty cool. While you have Frank's book out look at PT-61 on page 87. Notice that it has a loop antena on the starboard side of the cabin and a ships bell is located under the spot light. Both are gone as well as the mast in this later color photo.

This is just great stuff. I'm hoping we can get some feedback from some of the vets to confirm what we're looking at.

Dave

David Waples

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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Jan 5, 2008 - 9:24am
Dave,

I stand corrected about my mention of the small triangular plate-and-cables torpedo-restraining gizmo as a "positive lock" device.

I misspoke, because the positive-lock device is clearly the deck-mounted plate with the chain-attached pin that was stuck through the corresponding hole in the plate under the torpedo tube, to lock it when the tubes were cranked into firing position. My mistake!

Despite your argument to the contrary, I still respectfully disagree on the brass-colored "cover" vs. torpedo-warhead question.

I still think the brass-colored object in the aft port tube on the boat (the 109?) tied up to starboard of the 61 in the crew-in-front-of-the-charthouse photo is the actual torpedo warhead. It appears the warhead-ends of the torpedo tubes on the 61 in that photo are darker in color than the lighter "brass" color of the other boat's torpedo, whatever that implies (were they in the shade?).

I also don't think whatever color the depth charge fuse plates are in the photos has anything to do with the torpedoes (or tube covers).




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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 5, 2008 - 3:43pm
Hey Drew,
No worries. That's why we share ideas here.

It's okay we don't agree on what I think are tube covers. I was looking at Frank Johnson's book and there is a photo of the tubes used to ship torpedos. It has a cover that looks a lot like the cover on the 61 boat. I'm convinced that it's a natural metal such as brass and and has a nice petena from being exposed. I'm thinking that this is the same case on the 109 boat. What else would they have made these out of? I've also noticed from looking at photos of the 105 boat they covered the ends with canvas. Why? What are they protecting? Also some covers seem to be half domes and others seem to be shallower and covered with canvas. Sometimes there is nothing but canvas covering the end. That's why I really want to hear from some vets about these covers. I'm sure there are some stories to tell and information to share.

I'm going to start a new post! :-)

Dave


David Waples

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 5, 2008 - 3:47pm
By the way, the new photo is hysterical. Thanks for adding.
Dave

David Waples

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 6, 2008 - 5:30pm
David;
Yes the loop antenna was removed by the time the photos were taken. Also note the broken plexiglass wind shield. Ken stated he did not remember how this happened. but Ken in 61 was on patrol one night out of Searlesville, along with Bill Kriener in 60 I believe, close to midnight they were strafed and bombed by Rufe float planes which flew up there wake and Kriener was wounded. Ken still has nigthmares about this night. I believe this might have happened that night, but it is just a weak guess.
The Bell of 61 according to Joe Kernal's daughter was in the families backyard when she was growing up. He used it to call the kids in for dinner. She did not know if it was really the actual bell from the boat, but she said her Dad always said it was. I later asked Ken about this and he could not imagine how Joe got it off the boat and shipped it home, but, he agreed with me, Iam sure bigger things than a PT Boats Bell made it back home. My Dad, who was a LTjg for example, brought back an M-1 carbine from the ETO in the center of his duffle bag. He also brought back an Arisaka rifle with bayonet and an Officers Samuri sword from the PTO.
Talk to you guys later, I got to hit the Rack!
Take care
TED


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jan 7, 2008 - 12:40am
Hey Drew and David,
I was reading all the posts and I agree with the idea that the objects in question on the front of the torpedo tubes are the torpedo warhead itself, which was made from Phosphor Bronze (not brass). Same goes for the depth charge depth setting dials. They would not be painted if the fish stays inside the tube. The photo looks like a bare bronze warhead to me and not some type of cover. I think those canvas covers seen in Johnsons book were to keep salt spray from mixing with the grease inside the tube. I obtained this info from a USN Ordnance Tech manual from 1944. Just in case you didn't know the warheads were made of bronze. Jerry PT658 Oregon

Jerry Gilmartin

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 7, 2008 - 5:17am
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the information. What made me think that they were covers is that in the case of the 61 boat they don't look like they are inside a tube but rather something pressed on the front. It has such a strong petena on it too.

The photos I have of PT-107 have the half dome covers that seem to be held in place by knobs. These look like they were modified later to have a triangular piece of metal held in place by three wires. This method allows only one release to be made to free the tube covers. Then there are a bunch that use the canvas to cover the tube.

Maybe I'll just model it with the 109 with knobs or canvas. I'll have to stew on that one for a while.
Dave

David Waples

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QM

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 10, 2008 - 6:12pm
the second photo posted earlier on this subject shows the top deck at the stern of two boats. The depth charges on the boat on the right side of the picture show a green paint that is well lighted . It may be a good one to match.

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Feb 13, 2008 - 2:37pm
HI GUYS I AM HOME!!!
I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE PHOTO OF PT 61(LOOK AT PHOTO #6), THE GUY STANDING IN THE BACKROUND ON THE PT 109, SURE LOOKS A HELL OF ALOT LIKE TM2/C ANDREW JACKSON KIRKSEY! COMPARE THIS PHOTO TO PHOTO OF PT 109 CREW(USE GENE'S WEBSITE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PHOTO), KIRKSEY IS THE THIRD FROM LEFT IN THE FRONT ROW.
IF YOU ENLARGE THE PHOTO YOU CAN SEE THE LIKENESS IN HIS FACIAL STRUCTURE.
TAKE CARE
TED


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