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 Author  Topic: Experimental Elco 20mm Mount on PT-196
Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Feb 22, 2024 - 3:55am
Several views of an interesting experimental Elco 20mm gun mount tested on PT-196, while the boat was still with Elco. Timing wise, I figure this would have been prior to the Mk14 mount. From PT Boat Museum's collection.

pYwS0.jpg
pYh6m.jpg
pYZVY.jpg

pY3kT.jpg
pYoqc.jpg
pYCi3.jpg


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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Feb 22, 2024 - 10:59am

Thanks Andy for the great post!

Dick . . . .


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Feb 22, 2024 - 11:43am
Andy;
Once again, excellent photos. I have only seen the one photo, but now, with all these angles, you get a nice understanding of the mount.
Take care,
TED


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Feb 22, 2024 - 11:46am
Anytime! The deck area where the forward torpedoes would be is also kind of interesting.


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Feb 22, 2024 - 5:26pm
Andy;
Those look like they might be the original base plates for George Sprugel’s roll off rack design.


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Feb 23, 2024 - 9:32am
Andy;
Those look like they might be the original base plates for George Sprugel’s roll off rack design.


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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Feb 26, 2024 - 8:00pm
CMDR Kelly of RON 9 (which included the 150 series of ELConPTs) had the 20mm Orlicon mounted on the forward turret as his ‘experiment’ to have more firepower than the twin-50s. For the missions during the summer of ‘43, I don’t believe they really provided much advantage as the PTs’ mission, per Bulkeley, were to quietly (with the exhaust flaps closed) approach the enemy ships, fire torpedos and then leave the area undetected (although the fire ring from the toro tubes often gave away a PT’s position).

HOWEVER, when the engagements changed to attacking the Japanese coast hugging barges, in the Fall of ‘43, the 20mm in having the Orlicon 20mm in forward turret, the rear deck and AND now on the foredeck would greatly enhance the PTs offensive capabilities.

As a footnote; according to archival documents between CMDR Kelly and his superiors, Kelly was much opposed to using PTs on a barge busting role. He felt the PTs, which had to use a close on maneuver to attack the barges, did not have enough defensive armor to protect them for Japanese shore fire which were protecting the barges.

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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Mar 1, 2024 - 5:27am
CMDR Kelly of RON 9 (which included the 150 series of ELConPTs) had the 20mm Orlicon mounted on the forward turret as his ‘experiment’ to have more firepower than the twin-50s. For the missions during the summer of ‘43, I don’t believe they really provided much advantage as the PTs’ mission, per Bulkeley, were to quietly (with the exhaust flaps closed) approach the enemy ships, fire torpedos and then leave the area undetected (although the fire ring from the toro tubes often gave away a PT’s position).

HOWEVER, when the engagements changed to attacking the Japanese coast hugging barges, in the Fall of ‘43, the 20mm in having the Orlicon 20mm in forward turret, the rear deck and AND now on the foredeck would greatly enhance the PTs offensive capabilities.

As a footnote; according to archival documents between CMDR Kelly and his superiors, Kelly was much opposed to using PTs on a barge busting role. He felt the PTs, which had to use a close on maneuver to attack the barges, did not have enough defensive armor to protect them for Japanese shore fire which were protecting the barges.

Total Posts: 319 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm | IP Logged

TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Mar 1, 2024 - 6:32pm
CMDR Kelly of RON 9 (which included the 150 series of ELConPTs) had the 20mm Orlicon mounted on the forward turret as his ‘experiment’ to have more firepower than the twin-50s. For the missions during the summer of ‘43, I don’t believe they really provided much advantage as the PTs’ mission, per Bulkeley, were to quietly (with the exhaust flaps closed) approach the enemy ships, fire torpedos and then leave the area undetected (although the fire ring from the toro tubes often gave away a PT’s position).

HOWEVER, when the engagements changed to attacking the Japanese coast hugging barges, in the Fall of ‘43, the 20mm in having the Orlicon 20mm in forward turret, the rear deck and AND now on the foredeck would greatly enhance the PTs offensive capabilities.

As a footnote; according to archival documents between CMDR Kelly and his superiors, Kelly was much opposed to using PTs on a barge busting role. He felt the PTs, which had to use a close on maneuver to attack the barges, did not have enough defensive armor to protect them for Japanese shore fire which were protecting the barges.

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Mar 1, 2024 - 11:14pm
Bridge;
I have read Bob Kelly’s recommendations, he suggested LCM’s be upgraded in weapons and armament , sort of like a Pacific version of an F-lighter. It definitely would have freed up the PT Boats to hunt capital ships, but there wasn’t any. After the Solomon’s the only real capital ship contact was the Battle of Surigao Strait.
So if the Navy followed Kelly’s recommendations, the PT’s would have pretty much been out of a job.
Take care,
TED


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