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 Author  Topic: A potntially dumb question
JEno

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of JEno  Posted on: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:03pm
When I look at a RON 33 boat, but it could apply to any, I pause to ponder the potential for cross fire from the forward gun mounts. Was there any particular rule, written or otherwise, that governed which guns were manned at particular time? Likewise did particular mounts engage in certain sectors while others engaged in their own likewise restricted sectors? I can understand defending an aerial attack with all mounts, but a surface engagement would seem to offer friendly targets on deck as well.
I hope I've made myself understandable.
Thanks.
Jonathan


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Travis B

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Travis B   Send Email To Travis B Posted on: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:27pm
I am intrigued by this question! Hopefully someone will have a answer to this.


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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:55pm

All boats were designed with gun detent rails or bars to prevent firing on boatmates. This applied to 50cal turrets, 20mm and 40mm guns. With some guns, mainly 20mm came with built-in gun detents built into the gun base resulting in the barrel moving up beyond, or stopping movement into occupied/equipment areas or the boat. Some of the add-on guns 50’s and 30’s and the likes had stops or simply required on operators to use extreme caution and stop firing whenever boat mates were endangered.

All detents for each weapon were designed specifically with all occupied areas of the boat along with sensitive equipment, such as masts, antennas and radars. The detents had to protect forward gunner(s), Helm, opposite turrets, mast and electronic equipment, rear gunner(s), cabin structures, other weapon systems and deck.

However, boat to boat (friendly fire) depended strictly on gunner training and cautions or better, the rule Don’t Be Stupid !.



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JEno

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of JEno  Posted on: Dec 12, 2019 - 1:32pm
Thank you Dick.
I was aware of the rails pertaining to the twin fifty mounts and the 40mm, but had not heard of the mount built in detents. As you say "don't be dumb" , but adrenaline can make one do dumb things, sometimes.
Jonathan



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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 13, 2019 - 7:46am
Here's the cam operated limiting stop built into the 20mm mount (Mark 14 in this case) that Dick mentioned:

jKvmS.jpg

They may be adjusting it in this image, note the radar mast:

jK0eY.jpg

I only have 2 photos showing turret .50 limiting stop rails removed, they may have been damaged and temporarily removed:

jKPo0.jpg

jK2km.jpg



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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 13, 2019 - 1:37pm
Jeff;
I have photos for most of the boats in RON 12, which I believe both your photos are of, the color photo is PT 150, possibly Andy Gesik in the turret . RON 12 either removed or altered their turret limiting rails for both turrets.
Take care,
TED


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 14, 2019 - 1:47am
Interesting, thanks Ted. I wonder why, the stops seem to give range to everywhere except where you wouldn't want to shoot. The history.navy.mil site mentions that the background boat may be the 150 but they don't sound very sure of themselves. Zooming into the high res version of the pic didn't help, still too fuzzy:

PT boats speed through Polloc Harbor, Mindanao, while supporting landings ther, 17 April 1945. boat in background appears to be PT-150. Note twin .50cal machine gun in foreground.

A higher resolution version is here: https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-K-04000/80-G-K-4342.html

Do you know if the 2nd image is of the 191? It looks like it is but it could also be 181.



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