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 Author  Topic: WHAT WAS THE TRUE COLOR PAINT JOB ON THE 109
TGarth Connelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 5, 2008 - 10:54am
Dave,

Ah, using vets as references? To historians (not me by the way), that's a mortal sin.

They claim that veterans aren't good sources for data. I disagree. Whereas it is true that their memories do fade and mingle into each other as they get older, I have found that some of their memories are dead on and can be verified through photographs and other documentation.

But, I've been heavily criticized for advocating the use of veterans as information sources ...

But, what do I know?

Garth

You've got a question, I've got an answer.

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 5, 2008 - 3:27pm
No worries Frank. I can't help being anal about my models. It's just the way I am. I love these boats because so much was done to them in the field. There were so many interesting field modifications done. I didn't even want to do the 109 because it has been done to death. But in my opinion it hadn't been done correct yet. So that's why I'm stuck on it and determined to get it done correctly.

As I mentioned before I have 3 different boats in the pipeline and I just completed a 1/700 scale diorama of 2 80' Elco boats at full speed. That nearly killed me by the way but I was very pleased with the way they came out.

Garth, you'll like this. After I finish an airplane to regain my sanity I'm doing a 1/700 scale APA, the USS Geneva for my wife's Uncle. He served on this boat in 1945. Fortunately there's a lot of good references for this ship so it's pretty easy to finish. But he insists that the markings on the boat were "APA 86". Well, the photos all show "PA 86". The Navy dropped the first "A". I'm going to have to bring the photos to show him. But that's how human memory goes. What he might lack in accuracy is made up for in experience. He's shared many stories on how the boat functioned. I swear if we could get our hands on an APA and a Higgins boat he could lower it to the water, drive it, and repair it when we returned.

At the end of the day you have to gather the evidence and formulate your conclusions as best you can and get'er done.

Now somebody tell me about these darn torpedo covers. :-)
Dave

David Waples

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TGarth Connelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 6, 2008 - 8:19am
Indeed, indeed. Exactly my point. One MUST take everything in and then, do what they think is correct.

You've got a question, I've got an answer.

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  QM

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 8, 2008 - 12:41pm
I do not believe there was any standard color for the PTs in New Guinea. Most were a "camo" style with two shades of green, or black and green. The green tints were made by mixing with whatever paint could be found. It is possible that no two were identical in camo pattern or shades of green. I also doubt that a color picture could be relied upon for the actual colors. Film may not capture the true color, and color can be lost in printing. A picture, color or black and white, could disclose the pattern

My suggestion would be to find two shades of green that you like, one dark and one light, and start painting.


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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 8, 2008 - 1:43pm
My point exactly. No two boats were alike, and many were painted in the Combat Zone with whatever green paint they could muster from the Supply Boys. Even those wonderful color pictures that we were so happy to see, could in fact be a different shade then what is being seen in the final print. I had said all along that whatever shade of green used to try and match the boats in the War Zone would not be wrong. Although I can fully understand doing as much research as possible can make or break a model, there comes a time when you must just pick a color and start painting the boats. There are many guys out here that have done enough boats to give you the almost as close colors as one can get. I hope when you are done painting, you will show us what you have come up with. I am sure it will be just fine.....


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  QM

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 8, 2008 - 6:33pm
I failed to mention that the deck, charthouse and dayroom were painted a solid color, usually a dark green.


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Jan 8, 2008 - 6:41pm
I'm very close to what I hope is the right mixture. I'm going to shoot some samples and then go for it. I will certainly share the finished results with you guys unless I really mess it up somehow.
Dave

David Waples

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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Jan 8, 2008 - 8:01pm
Like I've quoted, what seems like a long time ago now, from Robert J. Donovan's "PT 109 - John F. Kennedy in World War II:"

"For camouflage in the waterways among the islands the boat was painted forest green."

Wayne's posted photo of the boat alongside PT 61 in the inlet at Searlesville certainly shows it to have been a very dark green in color.

A historical mystery solved, once and for all!


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VCR

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 3, 2008 - 2:48pm
There is a long story involved-but I actually met the Capt of PT 361-he was stationed with the 109 for a bit and he recalls the boat was painted Green.
More on the 361 to follow.


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Mar 6, 2008 - 7:04am
VCR,

Was the skipper of PT 361 a veteran who had previously been in combat in the Solomons?

The reason I ask is that the official history of the PT boats, "At Close Quarters," has PT 361 as a member of MTB Squadron 27, which was commissioned (in the States) on July 23, 1943, with the 361 itself being "placed in service" on July 27, 1943 -- hardly in time to have been "stationed with" PT 109, which was rammed and sunk on August 2, 1943.


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