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 Author  Topic: Elco 80' Boats With Armor
Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Aug 19, 2018 - 6:33pm
According to drawings and photos I have, boats with bridge armor were:

PT's 103 to 150. The armor drawing is supposed to cover PT's 151 to 162 also but these boats were selected for experimental installation of a 20mm in the forward turret and for reasons unknown bridge armor was not installed.

PT's 522 to "unknown" according to a drawing of fairly poor quality. Two other ranges of boats are listed but I can't make out what they are other than possibly 73? to ?. Images I have with and without identifiable armor are:
523, 530, yes
557, 558, no
731 yes

PT's 565 to 624 armor was significantly different. It extended fully across the bridge with a door in the aft plate. Images I have with identifiable armor include:
575, 588, 589, 590, 613, 624

There is also a drawing for armor plates to protect the fuel tanks. It shows the armor mounted on the outer sides of the hull. Applicable boats listed are PT's 374-377 and 552-555. I could not find evidence of it in images I have although veteran Jack Duncan mentioned seeing it on a boat.

If you have a photo of a boat with the fuel tank armor, or bridge armor on a 531 to 563 boat, I'd appreciate seeing it. I'd also like to know if any other US PTs other than Elco 80's carried armor.

Commander Bulkeley with arm on aft plate top padding, on an unknown Elco 80' boat:

jbPbJ.jpg

PT 107 windshield armor, note relief in bottom of plate for chart house roof:

joGpy.jpg

PT 108 windshield armor, note no relief needed for chart house roof:

jojN8.jpg

Corner padding on PT 109, edge padding on starboard plate missing. Both are often missing in photos:

jbSn7.jpg

Corner and starboard plate partial edge padding on PT 111, note also the canvas cover from windshield to start of port armor plate:

jbvWH.jpg

Armor on PT 523:

jb2TM.jpg

Armor with door on PT 589:

jb0c4.jpg

Armor with door on PT 589, note that the starboard side of the bridge was also armored:

jbzag.jpg

A render of the forward armor plate on the early boats:

armor

A few more details can be found here: http://www.pt103.com/PT_Boat_Components_Armor.html

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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Aug 19, 2018 - 7:42pm
Thanks for posting these, Jeff. I'd never seen the Bulkeley or PT 108 photos before.


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Aug 19, 2018 - 7:43pm
Duplicate.

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Aug 20, 2018 - 6:51am
You're welcome Drew. The photo is labeled PT_108_Bougainville_Marine_Photographer_XO_Ens_Lang_CO Foncannon_1943_Oct. Here's another I have labeled as PT_108_CO_Foncannon_And_XO_Lang_1943_Oct. It shows that the armor was removed which gives the 151 to 162 and any earlier boats with armor removed a sleeker appearance I like. After that they extended the port bridge bulkhead with what Elco called Armor Plate Replacement on the 163 to 196 boats:

jopgi.jpg

A good shot of the edge and corner padding on PT 111 (maybe) I have labeled PT_111_Maybe_Bridge_Torpedo_Director_Cone_Base_Lt_JH_Clagget_At_Wheel_Ens_A_E_White:

jo4PO.jpg



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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Aug 20, 2018 - 7:04pm
Jeff;
Yes that is PT 111, underway on Elizabeth River near Norfolk Naval Shipyard Sept 9, 1942. Ensign Aaron White XO on left, LTjg John "RED" Claggett CO at the wheel. The cone looking mount is for the torpedo director, also notice the small red light pointed down at the gauges, in front the binnacle.
I have the original 5x7 photo from Acme Picture Service. PT 111 and PT 112 were loaded on USS Tallulah(AO-50) on October 10. 1942. which you have on you website, FYI photo 819-N-35465 is taken from the roof of Building 261 Norfolk Naval Shipyard, Portsmouth, VA.
Take care,
TED
P,S, Your PT 108 photos are nice, I have never seen these before either, but the are part of a series taken by this photographer, I will post.




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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Aug 21, 2018 - 9:35am
joZWk.jpg
PT 108 RON 5 LT JG GENE FONCANNON CO Empress Augusta Bay, Nov 1943

johcA.jpg

PT 108 crew Empress Augusta Bay Bougainville 11 43

There is another photo from this group of Gene Foncannon and Ens Lang in the chartroom
Take care,
TED


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Aug 21, 2018 - 10:58am
Thanks Ted I didn't have that last one. Thanks for ID'ing the 111 boat also.


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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Aug 21, 2018 - 12:01pm

Jeff . . . .

Can we see your 3D model from the other view (180-degree).

Nice armor demonstration photos - the model is great for seeing in depth.

Thanks,
Dick . . . . .


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Aug 22, 2018 - 3:51pm
Jeff,

More nice photos, thanks! The removed port cockpit bulkhead (armor?) piece on PT 108 looks rather strange to me.

Looking at the vertical padding on the starboard "wing" of the rear cockpit armor in the PT 111 photo, it seems obvious the same padding's "missing" piece in the PT 109 "JFK in the cockpit" photos isn't missing at all -- that's the way they were.


Obviously, as seen on PT 111, there was also padding on the original "wing" piece's edge.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Aug 22, 2018 - 5:18pm
Thanks Dick and Drew, here's a render from aft. The Aldis light locker on the armorless PT's 163 to 196 were different and free standing. I don't know about PT's 151 to 162. PT's 187 to 196's also shortened the top and moved the locker 6 inches outboard to port. PT's 314 to 367 moved the locker to behind the starboard bulkhead with a door for access:

Elco

I was wrong about PT's 151-162 bridge port bulkhead not having something similar to the Armor Plate Replacement extension upwards. The PT's aboard the SS White Plains:

jCyfg.jpg

PT 154 photos, I believe these originally came from Nat Smith whose Dad was Skipper Hamlin Smith. Note the damage to the bridge wing and radar mast. If anyone knows what happened I'd appreciate knowing. The deck was also heavily damaged:

jCBFy.jpg

The inner bulkhead looks like it was plywood covered. Note the rare view of the lux piping cover:

jCqZ7.jpg

I have this one labeled as September 1943:

jCWxJ.jpg



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