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The PT Boat Forum ª PT Boats of WWII ª  PT Boats - General

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 Author  Topic: PT 486 Oct-Nov 1944
Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jul 29, 2019 - 3:17am
I've asked that before, I thought it might be from an experiment they did with armor plating the outside of the hull in the gas tank area but it goes too far forward. A WAG is for attaching fenders, or reinforcing the guard rail for some reason. I can't remember ever seeing them on another boat.

They look to be flush with the outer guard:

jfbaw.jpg

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Arjan Wiskerke

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jul 29, 2019 - 3:50am
Thanks Jeff. After having seen this pic (boats in a lock with decks well above the quay sides), I thought these braces would be quite effective in protecting the hull .




Regards,


Arjan


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Jul 29, 2019 - 9:38am
Between May 44 and early Jan 45, PT-140 was on temporary duty at Navy Yard Brooklyn, NY. Anyone have any info on PT-140 during this time? Deck logs? Thanks!


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Gerry McGovern

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Gerry McGovern  Posted on: Jul 29, 2019 - 12:18pm
Thanks for looking up the information Andy! We can now officially rule out the current PT-486 (sitting in Kingston, NY) is the same boat that was shown in the pictures (we need the pictures put back from photo bucket if possible.)

Even though the picture is labeled, "PT-486", it only refers to the class (486 class) and not the PT-486.

GzxDZ.jpg

j7wuH.jpg

j7p3T.jpg

j7O0g.jpg

Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

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Gerry McGovern

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Gerry McGovern  Posted on: Jul 29, 2019 - 8:44pm
Quote:

I've asked that before, I thought it might be from an experiment they did with armor plating the outside of the hull in the gas tank area but it goes too far forward. A WAG is for attaching fenders, or reinforcing the guard rail for some reason. I can't remember ever seeing them on another boat.

They look to be flush with the outer guard:

jfbaw.jpg




Whatever they were, they were removed post war. This picture of the 557 as the Flamingo does show the extra strake under the gunwhale at the deck same as the picture above.

j7Nuk.jpg

Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jul 30, 2019 - 4:08am
Until we find out Arjan, that guess is as good as any! Have you noticed them in any other image?

I wonder why they didn't play up the ex-PT aspect of the Flamingo Gerry? I know that would have sucked me right in!

That part of the boat was standard on the Elco 80's, from frame 17 to the stern:

jfCjs.jpg



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Gerry McGovern

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Gerry McGovern  Posted on: Jul 30, 2019 - 5:45am
Quote:
I wonder why they didn't play up the ex-PT aspect of the Flamingo Gerry? I know that would have sucked me right in!



I am not sure if George Sinn did or not. He bought teh 557 and 486 at the same time. I am not sure why he chose to cut her down to 65' for USCG inspection reasons because his partner Otto Stocker kept the 486 full length and also converted for passenger use.

The funny thing is, George Sinn bought the ex-PT-728 in the early '60's and ran her as PT-109. I think it is funny(sad) because he already had purchased two 80' Elco's, cut one down and sold the other (which became the Sighseer) and then buys a Vosper PT to make look like an Elco!


Former crew member of the Big Blue Sightseer ex-PT 486

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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Aug 1, 2019 - 4:21pm
Anybody have the deck logs of PT-140 between May 44 and Jan 45? I have the RON 4 monthly reports, but they only say PT-140 was on temporary assignment in Brooklyn. The whole "Project Stinger" seems to be one of those projects that is buried somewhere, I hope. H.R. Everett, who wrote the recent "Unmanned Systems of WW 1 and 2" was unable to find anything on this project, and he's done extensive research on UAVs.


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Oct 19, 2019 - 6:52pm
So, Elco Hull #3683 was requested specifically as a test vehicle for BuOrd as part of Project Stinger Bravo (PT Boats). Project Stinger was under BuShips S67 headed by CAPT Hyman G. Rickover. This PT Boat hull was specifically requested to not have a PT number assigned and all association with Project Stinger was minimized for security. PT-140 was used as a drone boat and PT-564 (Hellcat) was used as a control boat. In addition, a PV-1 Ventura was converted for use as a control aircraft. These two control assets were used to control everything from small drone landing craft to large ammo ships (AK-22) in the NY area.

Project Stinger involved the use of drone vessels to clear paths through obstacles and mine fields and was intended to take out key installations. Only the small landing craft were used against the Germans in the Med. The PTs were never used in action. The PT Boats were to be loaded with 17 tons of TNT inside steel cribbing and rigged with scuttle charges. The plan was to take 12 of these PT drones and drive them into a Harbor defense minefield as they deployed marker buoys. They would then be scuttled and then detonated to clear a small channel. Next three drone DEs would follow with 1200 tons of TNT and be scuttled and detonated to increase the channel. Then a single drone AK would proceed through the channel into the harbor with 8000 tons of TNT which would be detonated (no scuttle) in order to destroy the port (AKA Halifax, Bombay, and Bergen). Last, a drone DE with napalm and other pyrotechnics would proceed into the harbor and be detonated to set the remaining defenses on fire.

In Nov/Dec 44 the project ended and ten sets of the PT cribbing and drone wiring were purchased. The hull #3683 which was supposed to be tested (scuttled and detonated) by BuOrd was instead used to generate a series of photos for the kits, which takes us back to the original photos. The information from this project was then handed over to the OSS Project Campbell, which later became Project Javaman. Many of the same key players participated in both.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 20, 2019 - 5:38am
An interesting slice of history, thank you Andy. Very ambitious and way ahead of its time. One of the first drones... it sounds like it could have saved many Allied lives and time.



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