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Topic: PT 486 Oct-Nov 1944 |
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Andy Small |
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Posted on: Sep 26, 2016 - 10:59am
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Just back from a National Archive visit and found another rabbit hole. In Oct-Nov 1944, PT 486 was down in Norfolk undergoing experiments that involved internal wood and steel cribbing, additions of iron and concrete ballast as well as an internal destruction setup. Was wondering if anyone knew what kind of project this was under?
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TED WALTHER
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 Posted on: Sep 26, 2016 - 2:18pm
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Andy;
Can you post this? If not PM me with info.
Tke care,
TED
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Andy Small
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Posted on: Sep 27, 2016 - 8:50am
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Here are some photos. The boat looks to be basically a hulk with no sign of equipment, weapons or engines (shafts seem to be missing)
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2016 - 6:40am
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wow
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ThePTboater
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2016 - 3:05pm
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very interesting pictures!
Hopefully in the near future this boat can take to seas once again.
ThePTboater
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TED WALTHER |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2016 - 6:43am
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Andy;
I have a few ideas, but I have to do a little more research.
As for the photos, I could only think of one person to ask, for his input. I had some ideas and asked about the possibility, here is my letter and lower is his response:
I hope all is well up in the "PT Boat center of the universe". An interesting set of photos, of PT 486 in Norfolk, Virginia Oct 1944, has come to light. http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=4156&pg=1&sc=20&x=0
Any ideas what this cribbing/bracing might be for? Would this be enough bracing for additional fuel bladders? I am thinking, that this was an experiment to modify boats to carry extra fuel for the run from Toguchi, Okinawa to Kyushu, Japan for opening stages of the Invasion of Kyushu Japan, "Operation Olympic" originally slated for 1 November 1945. You know this part of the boat, Any ideas?
Take care,
TED
he is going from the bottom up.
So the first picture is bracing for the thunderbolt . Looking at it I could only think the steel bracing is supporting a lot of deck load.
I think you could be right about additional fuel.
The only thing is that putting it that far forward would challenge the planing characteristics. But not sure. The cribbing isn't square to the hull ,but pitched to be level with the planing hull. So my question would be, what does the thunderbolt need to operate. Generator or hydraulics. Battery bank? With such large fire capacity, ammo stores?
My guess .
So until I find something more, we could go a few directions with these photos.
Back story: When RON 12 showed up with 40mm's at Morobe, then CDR Bowling got 12 from the Australians for his RON 21 boats. Originally, in November 1943, the Thunderbolt was rejected by Seventh Fleet in favor of the 40mm. 7th Fleet ,after seeing the results of RON 12 and RON 21, requested 30 40mm's be shipped out. PT 138 RON 7 was originally sent out with a Thunderbolt in 1943. As stated 7th Fleet deemed it unsatisfactory. As for the Thunderbolt, success with it was in the Med, then they began re-thinking the application for the Pacific. In the Spring of 1945, PT 174 RON 10 had her aft 40mm removed and a Thunderbolt mounted. RON 21 also received 3 of the mounts, but I have yet to see a photo of these RON 21 boats.
The standard installation required a "strengthened deck and an additional 5-kw 24 volt DC Generator" (reference; US Small Combatants, by Norman Friedman, USNI 1987).
This is really an interesting set of photos you "un-earthed"!! I look forward to more.
Take care,
TED
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2016 - 6:43am
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I wonder if she was sold off in this condition when Sinn bought 486 and 557 as a package deal. It would make sense but if mem serves she may have need put back into service. jimbo melanson(557 correct boat?? I think so but...)
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TED WALTHER
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2016 - 7:16am
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Jimbo;
After these tests PT 486 was returned to RON 4 with standard late war armament, and went to Great Lakes/Chicago for a war bond tour in October 1945. Both PT 486 and PT 557 were placed out of service in January 1946 and originally sold in 1948.
from a previous post:
PT-486, an 80-foot Elco boat, was place in service on December 2, 1943 It was used in the training squadron (MTBRON)4 in Melville, Rhode Island during World War II until it was placed out of service January 16, 1946. Along with PT-557, the vessel was purchased from BFM Industries (Brooklyn, NY) by Capt. George C. Sinn of Wildwood Crest, NJ on October 9, 1951 for $1,015.00. The vessel was sold in 1952 to Otto Stocker who operated the "Sightseer" as an excursion vessel from Otten's Harbor in Wildwood, New Jersey. The business was later sold to Capt. Charles Schumann in the 1980s. He named the vessel Schumann's "Big Blue" and ran the business until 2002. Remarkably, the PT486 was sold to the son of the original owner, Capt. Ronald G. Sinn, who is currently restoring the vessel to recreate the World War II appearance of PT-109, for which the PT-486 was renamed. Now of course PT 486 is currently located at "The center of the PT Boat universe".
Take care,
TED
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Andy Small
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2016 - 11:54am
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Thanks Ted,
I'm not so sure about this being bracing for the Thunderbolt since ELCO had boxes full of records and photos on this project, and these particular photos were not in there. The Thunderbolt required just a little additional bracing since it was way lighter than a 40mm mount. Also the caption of the one with the electronic hookup specifically mention destruction mechanism. Whatever it was, it was very heavy, most probably included explosives and required additional ballast.
I'm thinking our best bet now is to look through the actual PT 486 BUSHIPS records at the National Archives during this time frame. I have looked at the early records, but only up through the end of 43 with the comparison test against PT 487.
This will be on my list for my next trek down there.
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TED WALTHER
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2016 - 6:51pm
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Andy;
O.K. we do need more info here. What would be on a PT that would require a self destruct switch? I doubt they were looking at "explosive" PT Boats, however, UDT 2 did do experiments with remote control explosive LCPL's called Stingrays, at Kwajalein in March 1944, but it was a not successful , both boats had to be stopped and disarmed, because they went out of control.. The LCPL's had a steel cage ( 4'X 6'X6' ) built and placed in front of the engine cover,. The cage was filed with 20 lb tetryl filled haversacks.
Take care,
TED
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