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David Buck
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 Posted on: Jan 17, 2016 - 12:27am
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Jerry,
Still haven't found one that one can walk onto start the engines and sail away on yet, but one can still look, amazing what is out there if one spends just a little time doing that.
Dave. |
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Jerry Gilmartin |
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Posted on: Jan 17, 2016 - 1:28am
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Hi David,
I still think it was amazing that you found this in the first place! Wow. Imagine how many others may still be out there somewhere unknown. I think of all the people out there, Ted and Dr. Ross probably have the best ideas of where some of these old ex PT boat hulls may be! So how about it Al and Ted? Any hot prospects?
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR |
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William Doyle
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jan 17, 2016 - 5:24am
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I will reach out to the family of Donald Schmahl, and see if I can have a close-up look.
William Doyle |
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jan 17, 2016 - 7:30am
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Jerry;
There are a few, but most are "they were disposed of" stories. Such as CAPT ANDERSON Vlll, which was Ex PT 601, this was supposedly hauled up on the beach in Tampa or Panama City and disposed of in the late 80's or early 90's.
I also knew of what looked like a 78' Higgins in Panama, that ran tourists and supplies to Taboga. I last saw her in 2003. No Clue what happened to her.
78' Higgins PT Named DONA moored at Balboa Yacht Club 1998.
The one I am interested in but, I really have no clue about is PT 40, she was named Flamingo ll (possibly NIKKO II) and worked in Miami with PT 48(which was named Flamingo l). both were owned by Nikko tours and worked out of Haulover Marina, Miami. The last I know of her is around 1976. However, a certain Key West business man (who once owned PT 728), mentioned in a symposium at the Nimitz Museum in 1997, that PT 40 and PT 48 and PT 140 were still around.
PT 40 on the job as NIKKO ll
PT 48 on the job as FLAMINGO I, 1980.
PT 48 as Nikko tour boat FLAMINGO I, with NIKKO IV(might be another 80 ELCO, maybe 140??) moored next to her. (in a photo dated 28 SEPT 1983, Miami.(This is a George Schneider photo).
I also believe this company owned one of the RON 4 80' ELCO's and they have a boat last registered in 1989 named NIKKO (USCG Doc # 273735), that was listed as built in 1944, 500 series(505 1/44, 545 8/44).
Take care,
TED
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Jan 22, 2016 - 1:18pm
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years ago when I had the 761 boat there was a guy that reached out to me. He had a barge and a crane plus dredging equipment. He disappeared but we were going to go over and look at what remained of the boat. Being a precarious area the best way was to go over by boat (his work boat). It never happened. I don't have the pc anymore that would have had his e-mail or contact info. I think his name was Steve but that was a few years ago now.
The said the stern was intact and bottom. Her stem stuck out but she burned down to the water line I guess. There would have been enough boat to grab. If it is still there it would be a good grab and historic one for sure.
unless its my eyes (pretty good chance it is) I cant see anything that resembles a boat in the above photos bar the 1974 one of her sunk.
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Jan 22, 2016 - 1:35pm
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I do not believe 59 was cut down in length as some others. I do not know how to post photos here yet (I forgot) but looking at 48 and being aboard her and looking at 59 as Sea Queen she was not cut. Documentation back then was not exact. 486 as Sightseer was listed as 77 feet on her papers
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Jan 22, 2016 - 1:46pm
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me again.......... but I do wonder if the boat is resting out in the deeper water near the outer end of the pier not the shallows where the debris field is from the old wharf.
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Jimbo Melanson
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Posted on: Jan 23, 2016 - 5:49am
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I think what and where you think are the remains (not to say there could not be a piece or two?) of PT-59 is just the remains of the inner wharf. Those are all wharf timbers and pilings not boat timbers. In one of the videos mentioned in the post here a guy is walking on them (brave) and nothing resembles a boat among them.Certainly not an Elco boat timber I did have 761 for a few years.
I think over the 10 to 12 years since I have been contacted about her (59) time, silt, currents, hurricane Sandy and the fact that a barge could have scooped her up in a couple swoops she is gone. Last night looking at Google Earth there is nothing in the mud where she would have been moored that would indicate the remains of a hull. I even looked hard across the river on the other bank and all I can see it collapsed wharf.
As I said to Ted in an e-mail the only way to verify/satisfy would be to walk around down there for an hour or so at low tide. 4 plus hour drive for me but I am always up for this kind of thing. Maybe someday! You never know what is out there that may have been missed over all these years. If any of you are on Facebook please friend me I can add you to my little PT and Crash boat page I created there.
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David Buck
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Posted on: Jan 23, 2016 - 8:28pm
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Hi Jimbo,
If one was standing on the old pier on the right of the google pictures and then took a picture of the boat lying alongside that pier as in the 1974 photos then one would have in the distance the urban transit yards, however in the 1974 picture we have a large white building with another tall multi faced building behind it. If one looks at the 1st google picture one sees a large white building with black/ dark roof, this is the same building that we see in the 1974 photo, if we look further into the google images we can find the large multi faced building behind the first building, by lining these buildings up with the angles from the 1974 photo it can be seen that the old pier that is still visible is at the wrong angle to be the one in the photo.
Also what is rather interesting is, what is the gent in the photo standing on, a constructed pier, a built up section of sea wall as there appear to be old sleepers by his feet( maybe from the transit auth.)also in the close background near the bow there appears to be a crane of some sort that has been driven up to the boat, I could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me, there to salvage the boat or it engines or just parked there who knows. This could mean that the road that we see in the google images has been there quite a while, lots of questions very few answers.
It does appear that the boat in the 1974 photo no longer lies were she went down and that opens up a whole can of worms that we can only wonder at. Other photos of that area from that time and up to today would be welcome.
If one looks at the video by the person walking along the "pier/ Boat" it appears that the deck/decking of the structure was 2-21/2"x1" boards run fore and aft, it also appears that at some point some one has sawn a fair number of them off, I don't know to much about how you build your piers over there but most piers over here use 3"x8"/10" as decking not 2"x1",this size timber I would think I would tend to find a shipwright using to replace a deck that needed it, deck supports could always be added as well if needed. I Still can't find the piers needed that should be there, I will keep looking.
One other thing that stands out is that very few piers are angled away at one end and at the other end appear to be tapered to a point?
However with that being said I do feel that the only way to find out if this is what's left of the 59 Boat is to go down there and dig through the mud a little and get some on the spot answers, till then we will only be guessing But what if it is her !!
Thanks
Dave |
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Jerry Gilmartin
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Posted on: Jan 24, 2016 - 9:09am
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Hi David,
Like I said in my previous comment, I agree with Jimbo in that the timbers seen in the video appear to be much too heavy for them to have been part of a PT Boat. PT Boat deck was a 2 layer construction with inner and outer planking, The inner planks were about 3/8 thick and the outer layer was 3/4 inch thick for a total of just over 1 inch thickness. This is much thinner than what I can see in the video, they appear to be pretty substantial thickness seen edge on being cut off on top of 2x6 deck beams as is shown in the video. It just doesn't look right, to be honest. It looks like part of a dock like Jim says. Just my honest opinion.
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
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