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 Author  Topic: Your thoughts
Bucket

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 16, 2015 - 8:48pm
Sorry if this has been posted and/or discussed, but there is a picture of what is supposed to be PT-109 with survivors of USS Northampton onboard, taken in November of 1942. It is missing the aft torpedo tube(s) and I am wondering if this is how they were operated in the war zone. If so, would the tubes be removed and reinstalled often or was this how the 109 was configured when lost?
i cant figure out how to post the picture....


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Dec 16, 2015 - 10:17pm
This one? I don't know if you can tell if the aft tubes are there or just obscured by passengers?


Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 17, 2015 - 5:23am
Bucket;
This was a common practice of RON 2 and RON 3(2) at Tulagi. They removed several aft tubes, on the boats because there was a shortage. Several of the 77" Boats came out with only forward tubes, When the tubes needed PMS or repair, but the boat still had to be operational, they removed the after torpedo tubes of the boats that had 4 tubes, The surviving PT 109 documentation (ENS Bryant Larson, as Skipper), supports this. As does the Log books of several RON 2 and RON 3(2) boats.
Take care,
TED




RON 2 80' ELCO moving slow along the Tulagi Shoreline.(note the boat only has its forward torpedo tubes, but the after tube base pads are visible.)


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Dec 17, 2015 - 4:59pm
Bucket,

To add to what Jerry and Ted posted...

The 109 was in a two-tube configuration when the photo of her with the Northampton survivors aboard that Jerry posted was taken.

Educated guesses among PT historians and enthusiasts have speculated that the photo Ted posted of the two-tube 80' Elco along the Tulagi shoreline may possibly be that of the pre-JFK 109, with an experimental (and unsuccessful) radar antenna setup on the foredeck.

Photos in JFK's scrapbook of the 109 under his command clearly show the boat with all four torpedo tubes and two depth charges forward of each of the forward tubes. I'm convinced that was the configuration the boat was in when lost.


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 17, 2015 - 6:07pm
Drew;
Hmm..... interesting! I have read where they mounted the radar antenna (from a derelict PBY)on the foredeck while Larson was Skipper. And when they got underway at speed it read nothing , because of the bow lifting. but I thought it was a similar mounting as PT 28 on Gene's website.
I have always thought that object in the photo was on the shore, not on the boat. Any thoughts?
Take care,
TED


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Bucket

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 17, 2015 - 8:02pm
Thanks for the quick and informative replies! This is a great web site....


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bubbletop409

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of bubbletop409  Posted on: Dec 17, 2015 - 10:24pm
Even with all the survivors aboard, the hull appears to be riding stern high according to the water/marine stain line. I would think two torpedo's and their tubes and mounting would be in the neighborhood of 8,000 lbs. I also remember reading where many skippers felt the boats were in better trim with just the bow pair, and if their boat carried four, they preferred to fire the stern torpedo's first.

Larry
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260 Eagle EXP
79 Cole TR-2

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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Dec 19, 2015 - 1:29pm
Ted,

After learning about the original foredeck-mounted antennae of the experimental radar (from a PBY?) on PTs, and seeing a good photo of such an array on Gene Kirkland's website, I always figured those vertical lines on the long shot of that 80' Elco along the Tulagi shoreline were similar antennae.

Someone else, can't remember who, surmised/speculated that's what those lines were some years ago, and it made sense to me.

But, the lines could be something onshore (the supports of a small jetty or pier?). Who knows?




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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Dec 19, 2015 - 10:03pm
Just from the way the "mystery object" is high-lighted compared to the background, it would seem to me to be aboard the boat...

Will

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