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Topic: Ted Robinson's Claim to Have Helped Rescue JFK |
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William Doyle
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jan 2, 2016 - 5:00am
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Here's a note I just got from Mr. Ron Freeman below. I appreciate his
efforts and those of the Sacramento Bee and the Robinson family to get
the story told correctly. A few points - I did ask Ted Robinson by
phone how I should deal in my book with his claim to have been on the
rescue boat in my book in light of Bud Liebenow's repeated denials,
and the lack of any documentation for the claim. I politely asked him
if he could provide such documentation. At this point, Mr. Robinson,
who was until then seemed very avuncular, forceful and sharp (I told
him I was writing what I hoped would be a definitive account of the PT
109 story), said "thank you - - goodbye" and hung up on me. So I
certainly gave him a chance to address the issue. I did not include
any of this in my book as it seemed to me to be an odd footnote and I
did not want to cause public distress to an elderly veteran. But when
obituaries appeared citing him as rescuing JFK, I felt it important to
correct the historical record and point out that this is unconfirmed.
The fact that no one challenged his account over the years does not
change three critical facts - 1.) The captain of the rescue boat
denies Robinson was on the PT 157 that night or any other night. 2.)
No documentation has appeared that he was. 3.) A series of critical
discrepancies and unexplained errors appear in Robinson's descriptions
of the events, as detailed above in this thread by me and other
researchers who have conducted detailed examinations of the available
historical record. Any distress caused to anybody on this point is the
result of the so-far total lack of documentary evidence for Robinson's
claim to have helped rescue JFK. Also, some accounts of Ted Robinson's
claim to have been on the rescue boat refer to Mr. Robinson responding
to a call for volunteers to go on the mission. I will check with the
PT 157's former skipper Bud Liebenow on this, as his memory of these
events is extremely good and always in my experience matches the
documentary evidence, but I never heard of such a call for volunteers
before. The ship was nearly overloaded as it was, with its full
regular officers and crew, plus two medical assistants, plus officers
Brantingham and Cluster, plus two combat reporters, plus two and
possibly three Solomon Islands native scouts. I strongly doubt such a
call for volunteers was made or even necessary. As always, I am wide
open to be corrected on this if solid evidence appears that Ted
Robinson deserves to go down in history as having helped rescue John
F. Kennedy and the PT 109 crew. If such evidence is produced and it
checks out with historians and experts like the people in this forum,
I will be the first to tell the world and apologize for having reached
the wrong conclusion.
Bill,
Thank you for your posting and reply. Though I was, understandably,
disappointed in your inability to accept the information I supplied,
I can understand your position. I daresay, if such documentation
actually existed it would have been discovered by now! Arguably,
neither was there irrefutable evidence that he was not a participant
in the rescue or the Radar Officer on the attack lead boat PT 159.
I'm attaching Cathy Locke's reply to my letter and would be obliged if
you would post that on the Forum as well. Cathy is not alone in posing
the very valid question as to why no one had raised any question
during Ted's 30 years of telling that story? I will leave it to Ted's
family as to whether or not they want to go further.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Ron
Sent from my iPhone 5s
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Locke, Cathy"
Date: December 31, 2015 at 9:35:29 PM EST
To: Ron Freeman
Subject: Re: Wm. Doyle 10/27/15 Letter re Ted Robinson 10/11/15 Obit.
Thank you, Mr. Freeman.
I'm sure Mr. Robinson's family appreciates all your research.
I've never seen the YouTube video. The obituary we ran was based on
information provided by his family and stories about Mr. Robinson that
have appeared in The Sacramento Bee over the years.
Sacramento, for decades the site of two Air Force bases, is home to
many military retirees, so it was hard to believe that someone
wouldn't have challenged Mr. Robinson if there were glaring errors in
his account. Seems like someone would have known someone who knew
otherwise.
Because Mr. Robinson could not respond to Mr. Doyle's comments, we
talked to the family, corrected the one point they found in error, and
left it at that. The obituary had appeared online but had not yet run
in print. Because of the questions raised, we didn't run it in our
print edition.
I felt bad for the family. If Mr. Doyle wanted to press the issue, he
should have done so while Mr. Robinson was alive and could respond. He
indicated he didn't want to cause distress for an aging veteran, but
certainly raising the issue posthumously has caused the family
distress.
Cathy Locke
(Sacramento Bee)
William Doyle |
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29navy
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Posted on: Jan 2, 2016 - 6:54am
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Question: do we have documentation (logs) of Mr Robinson other boat assignments prior to the 118?
Charlie |
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TheBridge
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Posted on: Jan 2, 2016 - 9:35am
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I can say from my conversations with Skipper 'Bud' Liebenow, he has come across many, many instances of people saying they were on the 157 the night of the rescue. He is also not in the business of debunking them as he has other things to do. It is also why we agreed to put a photo of him with Jack Kennedy, when Kennedy asked Liebenow to accompany him on a few stops in the Michigan area (where Liebenow lived at the time) during Kennedy's run for Presidency. At one stop, Liebenow says, someone shouted out that they were with the boat that rescued Kennedy. Jack turn to Liebenow as asked 'do you recognize that guy' to which Liebenow said 'no'. Jack then said ' Lieb, if I get votes from everybody that claims to have been on your boat the night of the pickup I'll will by a landslide'. If is for those that made such false claims that Liebenow and I decide to put that page in our book as a silent dedication to them.
I DID speak to Ted Robinson when I was forming up the 'FIRST-UP: Chronicles of the PT-157' book. Mr Robinson was going up and down the west coast as a speaker for various clubs and anyone else who wanted to hear him speak and he was pushing his book. I told Robinson that I didn't have any support of his being on the 157 the night of the rescue based on two crew members (Liebenow & West) plus the Executive Officer (X)) of the PT 162 (which was the PT closest to the 109 when it sunk and later reported all hands lost) recall, Mr. Robinson became loud and agitated and appeared very surprised that any of the 157 was still around. He demanded Skipper Liebenow's phone number to call him. Which he did. When I spoke to the Skipper later he said Ted Robinson was also very pushy (my word here) with him. Robinson kept pushing Liebenow to agree that he, Robinson, was there. It became an uncomfortable call and Liebenow finally said something along the lines of 'if you say so' just to get off the call.
I wanted to finish my book on the 157 and moved on.
It wasn't until well after my book was done and an incident of 'I was there claim' was made by a Jack Gardo in Greenville, SC In that case Gardo's death was reported as the 'last man alive to have been there on the night of th 109 rescue'. The article was picked up by a wire services and reported in many major publications! I was contacted by Welford West's nephew about it. How do you think that made Liebenow and West feel? I contacted that reporter and briefed her on the facts. Much like that of the Sacramento Bee reporter, this reporter was not believing what I said. Mr. Gardo had been a local hero for the past 40 or so years. But eventually the reporter found that Gardo was not even in the US Navy unit AFTER the night of the 109 rescue. The better news is that Gardo did serve on the 157 about 6-months after the 109 rescue. Back to the story...That was a big shock difficult moment for the reporter, the widow and the family certainly. I didn't like it, but it had to be done.
It brought back the situation with Robinson to mind.
It was then I went and got a copy of Robinson's book and also the log pages of Robinson's PT, the 118, and did a comparison of Robinson's stated locations (in the Solomons) in his book to the actual locations found in the 118's log book The detailed results were previously posted as the third posting of this thread. Did I want to push this onto the family as I did, through the reporter, with the Gardo's claim? For posterity I posted the 118 log book pages retrieved from NARA and my interviews with people who WERE there with a summary report for posterity and walked away from it saying 'hell, at least Robinson was on PTs and was an XO and was ALMOST there' and leave it that.
The internet has changed everything. You can't be a 'local hero' anymore unless you really are one.
P.S. I really, really like Ted Walther's accounting of the process inside the briefing tent. I wish I had that in my FIRST-UP book which is focused on life as it was on PT's in and at Rendova (Lumbari Island). If this whole thread has brought us all some great PT history, folks...it is there.
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TED WALTHER |
TOP BOSS
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 Posted on: Jan 2, 2016 - 10:52am
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Charlie;
He was Exec on PT 115(George Brooks was CO) from RON 6 commissioning Brooklyn to Panama. In Panama, according to him, he was shifted to Exec of PT 118, ENS. Parker Staples(KIA Tulagi 5 March 1943) was CO. We need to look at PT 118 Logbooks 5 Mar-July 1943. I am thinking he was removed from 118, at sometime following bombing and replaced by LTjg Douglas S. Kennedy and ENS Gene Foncannon. Probably during drydock period.
BEFORE THIS GETS OUT OF HAND, I FEEL I NEED TO MAKE THIS CLEAR:
The question IS NOT, LCDR TED ROBINSON'S position as Executive Officer of PT 115 and later PT 118, he was in this capacity for several months and many patrols on PT 118. Until the boat ran aground and had to be destroyed on 7 September 1943(on the reefs near Liangai, Vella La Vela, also lost there was PT 172 RON 10).
The question is his status from 5 March 1943 to 11 August 1943, with specific questions for the night of 1-2 August 1943 and night of 7-8 August 1943.
The PT 118 log book(29 June - 11 Aug 1943) that was referenced(see in the Free PT documents section, this website), shows LTjg Billups Percy and ENS. Ted Robinson, reporting onboard PT 118 on 11 August 1943 as reliefs for LT Douglas Kennedy and ENS Gene Foncannon, and a new crew of 11 men reporting for duty. On the night of 12-13 August 1943 LTjg Billups Percy and ENS.Ted Robinson were on patrol(Call sign OAK 6)as part of 3 boat patrol ; Division A(PT 167 LT Curtis D. Howell ,OAK 41, PT 118, and PT 125 LTjg Chip Murray OAK 38), in lower eastern Vela Gulf.
Take Care,
TED
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William Doyle
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jan 4, 2016 - 2:16pm
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I got a new email from Mr. Ron Freeman, a friend of the family of Mr. Ted Robinson, who challenges the argument that it was "impossible for Robinson to have been aboard the PT 157 rescue mission because his PT 118 was on patrol." He makes the point that "it was not at all uncommon for boats to go on patrol with a completely different crew swap in order to give the regular crew a rest break." He continues, "In fact, Robinson was off duty when Hank Bratingham had asked him if he wanted to go on the rescue mission. Robinson's 8/1/43 arrival at 1800 hours provided him with ample time to board PT 157 which departed some 2-1/2 hours later. His location on that boat is immaterial, as he was only a passenger and NOT the XO! There is no question that he was not a pivotal figure in the rescue but only 'helped!'" Mr. Freeman is clearly referring to the JFK rescue mission that occurred not on 8/1/43 but 6 days later. Mr. Freeman may be raising a valid point in the sense that I suppose it was possible for last-minute, undocumented, little-remembered personnel swaps or "ride-alongs" to happen in the PT boat world. I don't totally rule out the molecular possibility that Robinson was on the rescue boat, the PT 157. He might have jumped aboard at the last minute and not been noticed. But I'd say the chances of this are infinitesmal-to-none, since: 1.) Two extremely reliable eyewitnesses, Skipper William Liebenow and crewman Welford West, had no memory of Robinson at all and no memory of any extra officer on board the night of the rescue other than Cluster and Brantingham, 2.) There was absolutely no need for Robinson to be on board a nearly overloaded boat with full crew and eight or nine extra guest passengers - - PLUS, on the return trip to Rendova, no less than eleven extra passengers consisting of the PT 109 survivors including JFK (a total of at least 19 extra passengers, more than double the normal crew size!), 3.) Not a scrap of documentary evidence supports Robinson's claim, at least nothing I've seen so far (I might even settle for a post-war letter or oral history reference from Cluster or Brantingham for example, or something similar), and, 4.) Robinson's accounts of the rescue as noted in this thread contain multiple critical errors and total falsehoods, one conclusion seems clear to me: Unless and until evidence appears, Ted Robinson does not deserve to go down in history as having helped rescue JFK. Mr. Robinson deserves to go down in history as a man who served his nation in combat, and a man who SAID he helped rescue JFK.
As always, I will publicly mea culpa in a heartbeat if the time comes.
I appreciate the forum's patience with this back-and-forth.
William Doyle |
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TheBridge
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Posted on: Jan 4, 2016 - 5:50pm
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Hi Bill,
Regarding Brantingham...
Mr. Robinson says he made himself a personal aide to RON-9 Executive Office Brantingham. As such Mr. Robinson would have been in and around Brantingham constantly. William Liebenow, however, and Brantingham were quite close in that they passed much of their off-time (day time) together playing cribbage. As noted previously, Liebenow has not recall of Mr. Robinson. Considering Liebenow's coniderable memory details, and well as West's & Reynolds, how could Mr. Robinson have had this association with Brantingham.
Second, When Liebenow and Reynolds were asked to comment about Mr. Robinson being a personal aid to Brantingham, their response was that none of the officers had any person aides; including Kelly and Warfield (RON-9 and RON-2 Commanders respectively).
Sorry to bang the drum slowly on this. At this point it would take a letter of significant weight, such as one from John Kennedy acknowledging Robinson's presence on the 157 that night, to sway the evidence. Even then it would say that the log books, MTB reports, and 3 key eyewitnesses got it wrong. That would be hard to figure.
Bridge
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William Doyle
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jan 4, 2016 - 6:05pm
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Excellent points, Bridge.
My concerns are not only about the lack of evidence for Ted's presence on the rescue boat, but the critical errors and discrepancies that often appear in his accounts, some of which I list above in the thread, but dating back to a 1961 article where he refers to multiple night-time searches for PT 109 wreckage in the days after the crash (there were no such searches, other than a few daylight Allied aircraft flyovers) and a "funeral" being held, which, despite a fleeting reference by Hersey in the 1944 New Yorker article to a service being held, has no other evidence to support it, and which probably was not held, since Liebenow remembers nothing of the kind (as JFK's tent mate and fellow officer on the small base, he would have been invited), there are no first-hand accounts of such a funeral that I've been able to find, and besides which, Kennedy and his surviving crew were never officially declared missing or dead. There may have been "a mass" said at Tulagi for the missing crew at the request of one of JFK's buddies, but that's not a "funeral" at Rendova as Ted says. Additionally, Joe Kennedy was not informed his son had died as Ted says. He was informed unofficially through government channels that his son was missing. Also, Ted's reference to "we think we are near Arundel Island" is mis-remembered or fabricated. No such message appears on the famous coconut.
The 1961 article, at the JFK library (I don't know where page 2 is):
https://catalog.archives.gov/OpaAPI/media/193775/content/media/images/31/30/31-2935a.jpg
http://presidentialcollections.org/catalog/nara:193775
If Ted said this in 1961 and it's not true, why didn't somebody call him on it? The article is in an obscure regional paper, possibly a phone company newsletter or circular of some kind. As you (Bridge) said, these days, the internet changes everything.
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