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 Author  Topic: Some comments, some questions
Louis Rockwell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Louis Rockwell  Posted on: Sep 28, 2015 - 9:46am
Hello again. Still a relative newcomer to this site, but I enjoy spending time here reading the posts and seeing the photos . I find it all very interesting and helpful. As a model builder and student of history, I like my models to be as accurate as my limited skills can make them. So I try to find information of colors, fittings and anything else that might improve them. To that end I have a couple of questions: Were the torpedo tubes ever removed for any reason? Other than when the boats were fitted with the MK13 torpedo? The reason I ask is there is a photo that says it is PT-109 with a deckload of survivors. Unless my old eyes deceive, I do not see the stern set of tubes in that picture. So I wondered if the tubes were removed for repairs or replacement. Any ideas? I have also developed an interest in those four BPB boats that were used in the Pacific. I know info is hard to come by, and I have seen the photos posted here. My question now is were all the larger guns mounted on the center line? Specifically, that 37mm and that 20mm on the bow? Also, I must sadly note the passing of Shep Paine. I saw an all too brief write up in the newest issue of Fine Scale Modeler. I admired his work greatly. His little brochures taught me to look beyond what is presented in the box, and see what you can do to improve your models. I still refer to his books and use his methods. He will be greatly missed. Thanks for the great site, and I hope I did not take up too much of your time here.


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Sep 29, 2015 - 6:02am
Hi Louis and welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear that you're finding the information here useful. I appreciate your desire for accuracy and quality in your models. I try to do the same myself. There are some excellent modelers that haunt this site.

To answer some of your questions, and I'm sure some of the others will as well, here's what I can add...

Torpedoes were removed from time to time for various reasons. You'll find photos of the stern tubes replaced by ammo lockers and depth charges. The photo you are referring to of the 109 rescuing sailors does seem to show that there are no stern tubes in place. That said, and assuming it really is 109, the tubes reappear under the command of JFK. Hard to say why they were not in place at that time. Pure speculation at this point I think.

The 40mm is always on the centerline. It's a big heavy gun. There are some instances where it has been mounted on the foredeck as well, such as with PT-59. The dominant bow guns was the 37mm Oldsmobile cannon. There were at least two different styles. However you'll find everything from .50 cal to 37mm anti tank guns mounted on the bow. That said I have seen photos of the 37mm Oldsmobile cannon mounted off center, I think on the 20mm pad that you see on later 80 ft boats. The 20mm Oerlikon guns are all over the place. Originally on the stern they were moved forward to pads on either side of the bow and also into the turrets.

What I've always been fascinated about with PT boats is how creative the crews became with arming their boats. They were looking for every advantage they could get, particularly in their barge busting role. The best chance for accuracy is to pick a boat that has good reference photos and go from there.

I'm sure some of the others will weigh in with some thoughts of their own.

Dave



David Waples

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Sep 29, 2015 - 6:02am
Hi Louis and welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear that you're finding the information here useful. I appreciate your desire for accuracy and quality in your models. I try to do the same myself. There are some excellent modelers that haunt this site.

To answer some of your questions, and I'm sure some of the others will as well, here's what I can add...

Torpedoes were removed from time to time for various reasons. You'll find photos of the stern tubes replaced by ammo lockers and depth charges. The photo you are referring to of the 109 rescuing sailors does seem to show that there are no stern tubes in place. That said, and assuming it really is 109, the tubes reappear under the command of JFK. Hard to say why they were not in place at that time. Pure speculation at this point I think.

The 40mm is always on the centerline. It's a big heavy gun. There are some instances where it has been mounted on the foredeck as well, such as with PT-59. The dominant bow guns was the 37mm Oldsmobile cannon. There were at least two different styles. However you'll find everything from .50 cal to 37mm anti tank guns mounted on the bow. That said I have seen photos of the 37mm Oldsmobile cannon mounted off center, I think on the 20mm pad that you see on later 80 ft boats. The 20mm Oerlikon guns are all over the place. Originally on the stern they were moved forward to pads on either side of the bow and also into the turrets.

What I've always been fascinated about with PT boats is how creative the crews became with arming their boats. They were looking for every advantage they could get, particularly in their barge busting role. The best chance for accuracy is to pick a boat that has good reference photos and go from there.

I'm sure some of the others will weigh in with some thoughts of their own.

Dave



David Waples

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  Louis Rockwell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Louis Rockwell  Posted on: Sep 29, 2015 - 9:20am
Thank you for the very helpful response. I had wondered about things like those tubes. In a firefight I know they had to have been damaged, and wondered if they were repaired in place, or just removed and replaced. Your response goes a way toward answering that. And the info on the armaments is equally useful. Iook at the photos carefully when I do my models (assuming I can find one of the model I am doing) to make it as accurate as possible. BTW, I pay special attention to your comments and models on this site. Your views are along the same lines as my own. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, so thanks again.


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Sep 29, 2015 - 7:11pm
You're welcome Louis. I hope you have fun building your boat.
Dave

David Waples

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Michael Vorrasi

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Michael Vorrasi  Posted on: Oct 3, 2015 - 11:50am
Just some extra background on the 109 photo with 2 torpedo tubes. We know it is 109 because she was the only 80 foot Elco operating in the Tulagi area when Northampton sank. She has Northampton survivors aboard. I read that there was a shortage of operable torpedo tubes at the time, so some boats with four torpedo tubes donated their aft tubes so other boats could go out with at least two working tubes.

Mike

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Oct 3, 2015 - 1:15pm
Mike;
You are correct about the tubes. But 109 went out because it was Westholm's flag boat. PT 110,111,&112 were still operational in RON 2 when Northampton was sunk.
Take care,
Ted


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Oct 3, 2015 - 5:43pm
Hey Ted,

Which 80' Elcos (besides the 109) were operational in Ron 2 at Rendova in late July/early August of '43?


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Oct 7, 2015 - 1:59pm
That one😣


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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Oct 7, 2015 - 4:57pm
OK, thanks.


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