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 Author  Topic: The PTSIG site saga continues...
alross2

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of alross2   Send Email To alross2 Posted on: Oct 7, 2014 - 5:49pm
One of the most recent entries on the PTSIG site asserts that PT61, as seen in Ken Prescott's color photos, could have been NAVY GREEN. Well, NAVY GREEN (5NG) is an official USN color, mixed to a specific formula, There were at least two different formulae, with the change occurring in 1943. Both were a dark green:





(The actual colors are darker and greener than they appear on your screen, but you can get an idea of what they looked like.)

As you can see, they do not even vaguely resemble the color of PT 61 in the photos. In an earlier thread, Wayne noted that Prescott told him he painted the boat in a home brew of NAVY BLUE and GRAY. In his book, Prescott talks about using a mixture of ARMY GREEN (whatever that might have been) and lots of WHITE to arrive at a ...bluish-green.... Whichever color it was, neither is NAVY GREEN (5NG)..

The boat nested outboard of 61 is green. Whether it was NAVY GREEN, TROPICAL GREEN, or a homebrew is open to question. TROPICAL GREEN, which we know from a memo in Tracy's camouflage site was a mixture of four parts zinc chromate to one part 5TM (blue tinting material), looked like this:

(All color chips matched to originals by John Snyder)

In the same thread, mention is made of ... the barrel in the right frame (next to the gold plug or whatever it is)... The barrel is a depth charge and the gold plug is the depth setting device for the detonator.

Sigh

Al Ross


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Oct 7, 2014 - 6:37pm
Sigh. Plus salt air and sun would bleach out any of these colors, I should think.

Thanks, Al.

Will

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 2:38am
If I'm not mistaken, there were green boats close by on either side of the 61. If that's an untouched photo clip, the slight green tinge could be reflected from them.

Nice chips Al, thanks.



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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 6:57am
Don't know what the "PTSIG" site is, but the 61 in those Prescott Kodachrome photos is definitely gray, not "green" by any standard or measure.

As stated, the boat outboard (and also inboard) of the 61 in those photos IS (ARE) green (the outboard one lighter, the inboard one -- PT 109? -- except for it's sun-blasted and foot-scuffed deck, somewhat darker).

At least that's what these (corrected to 20/20 and non-color-blind) eyes tell me.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 11:04am
I was mistaken about the POSSIBILITY of a REFLECTED green color, it's just plain not there. I had this non-RE...RE...FWD...RE...FWD shot from 2008. I believe the source is Ted, he got them from Mr. Prescott. If you don't mind Ted, let me know if this is the original untouched photo please:




This one is from a 2012 save and looks like it may have been retouched:



The caps in my first line were out of annoyance at Garth twisting my words around again on his FB page. From my If that's an untouched photo clip, the slight green tinge could be reflected from them., he posts the definitive I've been told and I've seen it said because of the proximity of the other boats, the 61 would look green when she wasn't. At least someone there let him know that my statement was a possibility.


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 3:41pm
Jeff:
They are direct enlargements from his Kodachrome slides. No copies here. Both Wayne and I have enlargements of Ken's Kodachrome slides. Ken sent them first to Wayne about 1984-86, then Wayne sent them back. Then around 1996, Ken sent them to me in Panama, I had my prints made, then mailed them back to Ken.
Take care,
TED


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 5:00pm
Thanks Ted, I wanted to make sure that the 1st one is the original color as you received it. The top photo is the image he is using, you can see the different tint from some photo editing program:




I feel bad for the knowledgeable man trying to help him. He has him using the tweaked image even though he now knows of the false colors in it.

The source is here Drew: http://www.facebook.com/groups/PTBOATSIG/



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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 8:33pm
I'm still amazed how badly these boats faded. Amazing what throwing down some water on the deck does to bring back the color.
Dave

David Waples

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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Oct 8, 2014 - 8:41pm
Jeff;
I think the one you thought was retouched looks that way because it was later in the day. in the other photos the sun appears to be on the portside of 61 creating, shadows to starboard. In the crew on the bow photo this is now the case, suggesting the sun might be blocked by clouds or the tree line to starboard.
Take care
TED


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 9, 2014 - 7:47am
Thanks Ted, and thank you for sharing these photos. They really are special. And it's good to see most of the men smiling. Besides color images, that's pretty rare too.

Yes Dave, the color difference is striking. I wonder if they wetted the deck for a reason, or just happened to be swabbing when the camera came out.



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