PT Boat Forum


Moderated by: Dick, Jeff D

The PT Boat Forum ª PT Boats of WWII ª  PT Boats - General

Prev Page | Next Page | Page: 6 of 11

Back to Topic Index Page 49 | Replies: 109 | Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11

 Author  Topic: Pure bilge (oxymoronic, isn't it?)
David Waples

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Oct 11, 2014 - 3:12pm
Quote:

Jeff, A little light banter as they say

Here is a little more from Barney Ross but in a different direction so,

"We had these two coconut logs to brace the legs of the 37mm cannon. I'd say the logs were 8-9 feet long, about 10-12" in diameter. I think we had just tied them down, I'm not sure... When we swam to shore we used one coconut log."

Most models and depictions of the 109 show these logs as 8x2-8x4 planks, I have read other members of the 109s crew also stated that they were logs as well.

Sorry have to add that he also said that it had the wheels on it, that one might put the cat among the pigeons!

Any ideas?

I am not meaning to create any more storms but mealy a question to ask if this has been picked up by you or others.


Sometimes it pays to read what people who were there have to say, better than guessing at what may have happened. My way of looking at it.





Hi David,
That is interesting. Robert Donovan's book specifically states "planks". He spoke of how a Japanese air raid stopped their plans to permanently attach the planks and the gun and Kennedy gave instructions to lash both planks and gun down to the deck. During the swim he states "planks" again which in my mind is different than logs. Maybe both were used? Maybe Mr. Ross was thinking about the movie? Who knows.

Whee was this information from Mr. Ross obtained? I would like to read it if it's available somewhere.

I'm with you. Veterans memories count for something. However I've also heard veterans, including my dad, contradict themselves. Who can blame them, it's been so long.

Thanks for the information and observation David

Dave

David Waples

Total Posts: 1583 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm | IP Logged

Drew Cook

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Oct 11, 2014 - 5:56pm
Great screen captures, Dick, thanks.

Funny, although I remembered a log at the rear of the gun across the trail legs, I never noticed the log under the front of the gun in the movie.

And -- that looks like a WWII German Pak 37 field piece, not a U.S. M3 37mm gun!



Total Posts: 1241 | Joined: Oct 19, 2006 - 10:44am | IP Logged

TED WALTHER

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Oct 11, 2014 - 9:42pm
Drew;
Actually it looks more like this gun Frankie and his buddy are playing with back in dubya dubya one!



Take care,
TED


Total Posts: 2852 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am | IP Logged

zeusbheld

Advanced Member
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 2:14am
Quote:
Well, the last photo is somebody's next diorama.



Now there's a workaround!

Build a diorama of the scene from the movie, and all the disputed unknowns no longer matter to the modeler...

(A good follow up diorama might be the PBR from Apocalypse Now).



Total Posts: 61 | Joined: Aug 12, 2014 - 9:54pm | IP Logged

David Buck

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 5:13am
Hi David,

The Book in question is,
JFK Life and death of an American President. Volume One: Reckless Youth.

ISBN 071 262 5712

The book gives 90 pages of reference notes and the reference for Barney Ross and his statements are only given as the "CBS interview, Audio Visual collection".

Been looking but have not found anything on the net yet to cross reference to.

At the moment it would appear that the timber for the mounting of the 37mm may have been a combination of planks and logs.

Interesting reading Donovans book compared to this other, Donovan Writes as an author telling a story were as Nigel Hamilton is able to write his book as an autobiography. Very different styles of writing, with Hamilton being the JFK Scholar and Associate Professor in the John W McCormack Institute of the University of Massachusetts at Boston, while writing his book.

Going back to the collision itself I know that over time the popular belief has been that of the 109 being cut in half directly behind the cockpit ( this may be due to Dovonans Book and of course the movie which depicts this very graphically, note film capture no.3, 1 page back why with all the other things they spent time on to get right and this point is so wrong !!! someone boo booed as they say or what they needed to depict was not possible at that time we will never know) and this belief has fuelled many a heated argument, but if only the report that was delivered on the 16th Aug. 1943 by Lt. Byron White which was compiled by obtaining the firsthand witness statements from the crew of the 109 while it was still fresh in their minds, had been published then maybe the question of the Destroyers exact path through the boat would never have arisen.

This report is available on the net in a three section format and section three sets out the collision and the path of the Destroyer through the 109 in quite good detail, this report lays to rest any notion that the 109 was cut through behind the cockpit.

Hope this helps a little (by the way I picked the book up at a flea market for $2.00 no one else wanted it, to me a wealth of information about a time and an interest that I have)

Just my 2cents worth,

Ta

D.buck

Total Posts: 332 | Joined: May 4, 2008 - 2:59am | IP Logged

David Waples

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 6:12am
Thanks David. I couldn't find Bryon "Whizzer" White's report. If you can point it to me that would be appreciated. Bulkeley refers to it in his book so I'm sure I've picked up most of the short version.

I found the book on ebay for $4.00 delivered so I'll cheek it out. I recall the movie being inaccurate and a disaster but I won't hold the author accountable for that.

Dave

David Waples

Total Posts: 1583 | Joined: Jan 2, 2007 - 9:55pm | IP Logged

Jeff D

Moderator
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 8:06am
Here Dave, I had saved it possibly from the JFK library site: http://www.pt103.com/asst/Sinking of PT 109 - Memorandum to CO MTB Flotilla One.pdf.

Zeus, that is a good idea! You'd sure have some argueless documentation for it.



Total Posts: 1768 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am | IP Logged

zeusbheld

Advanced Member
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 8:34am
Quote:

Here Dave, I had saved it possibly from the JFK library site: http://www.pt103.com/asst/PT_109_1943_Report.zip.

Zeus, that is a good idea! You'd sure have some argueless documentation for it.





While I think there is no excuse for swill like Michael Bay's "Pearl Harbor" it is the normal for filmmakers to take some liberties even when the historical record suggests otherwise, in the interest of drama and spectacle. Even if it was known to the filmmakers that the boat wasn't cut neatly in half like that, they could have decided that it made a more spectacular and/or dramatic image. Haven't seen the film in decades, but it IS a spectacular image, that still... and I'm inspired to watch the movie when I get a free day...

Thanks for the link to the report. I read lots of stuff from the PT 103 site but I haven't specifically been interested in the 109 until now (something about coconut wood I guess).


Total Posts: 61 | Joined: Aug 12, 2014 - 9:54pm | IP Logged

Frank Andruss

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank Andruss   Send Email To Frank Andruss Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 8:44am
I'm just curious as to how long this thread will continue, there must be another subject we can talk about. I know, let's all write letter's to Will to try and get him to send me his boat that he promised me 5 years ago. Ted, I might have had a gun like that back in the day. PT-109 projects? If I had the funds I would love to do PT-109 as she is slamming into the dock side tool shed in the movie, but Stan's days of modeling are almost behind him now.......................


Total Posts: 3964 | Joined: Feb 9, 2007 - 11:41am | IP Logged

Jeff D

Moderator
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 12, 2014 - 11:43am
Thanks to Dick Washichek the report is now available in a much easier to read .pdf file. Thank you Dick! Here's a link:
http://www.pt103.com/asst/Sinking of PT 109 - Memorandum to CO MTB Flotilla One.pdf

I'll edit my previous post to point to this also.



Total Posts: 1768 | Joined: Dec 21, 2006 - 1:30am | IP Logged

Prev Page | Next Page

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11


Lock Topic

 

Forum Legend

New Member

Reply to topic

More than 25 posts | Full Member

Reply to topic with quoted message

More than 50 posts | Advanced Member

Edit Message

More than 150 posts | MASTER

View profile

More than 300 posts | TOP BOSS

Email member