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Topic: Early Elco 80'--Which Boat to Build? |
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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 Posted on: Sep 27, 2014 - 6:54pm
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Zues;
RON 10 boats are not easy to model. one could BS-it but to be really accurate you need photos of port, starboard, and transom/stern view, because every boat was painted different. No two boats even resembled each other, except a bunch of lines were painted on all of them. Another word of caution: some photos out there, a stern view with boat moving away from camera, and a port side stern quarter photo are labeled PT 170...THEY ARE NOT! They are actually PT 139, which was the original test boat for the scheme(look at the smoke generator, it is the same model used on 77' ELCO boats.
Take care,
TED
You mentioned two boats in particulate here are the pics I have for them:
PT 168 bow on
PT 170 Starboard bow
PT 170 Port side
PT 170 Port Side stern
I know how much Frank really loves this camo, I really would like to post all 20 pictures I have, but this will have to do for now.:0)
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zeusbheld
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Sep 27, 2014 - 7:35pm
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Here's an invaluable resource for anyone determined to build a 1/72 radio controlled PT:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1547828
It's a thread intended for micro aircraft and lists the weight of just about every micro component I've run across so far.
This will enable me (and anyone else) to use gram weights and a scale to determine how much they can cram into their model.
Having mailed Kenny at Gator's Masks, I'm now highly likely to do a Ron 10 boat (his mask looks like 170 so that's the new front runner).
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zeusbheld
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Sep 27, 2014 - 8:14pm
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THANKS Ted.
Even though this adaptor scheme stuff is now giving the headache it gave me a headache, it's great information.
170's particularly confusing. The starboard side photo that Navsource lists as the 170 looks NOTHING like the starboard side photo you posted. Is it 139? 170 is now a front runner, given that there are photos from all three angles.
Another major headache: I've heard and read from several people that the white stripes of Ron 10 boats were painted over with light green in the field. I'll be digging further into this but I doubt there's much info out there.
Then there's the decks. I've read conflicting reports of whether the deck was 'deck blue,' 'deck green,' or dark grey, and whether it varied from boat to boat.
The staggering amount of homework left to do before I build a Ron 10 boat nudges me toward 122 as my first boat, since it was most likely grey, but also makes me determined to build a Ron 10 boat at some point (apologies in advance to Mr. Andruss for the headache it will give him).
I think maybe it's worth making an Adaptor Scheme Resource thread and starting it with your 20 photos. Maybe you could just add them to this thread:
http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1272&st=0&nd=10&pg=1&sc=20
but that thread digressed into having more to do with the incident of the dud torpedo that hit 167.
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Sep 27, 2014 - 10:42pm
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Zues;
Yes the photo of STBD side of "PT 170" on NAVSOURCE is PT 139. Look on you tube, Dick put a video of PT 139 motoring around near the ELCO plant, you get to see every angle of her. Another give away is PT 139 only has her number painted on the 20mm pedestal and it blends in so good I can really only see it in still photos taken of her. All the RON 10 boats sported numbers, usually on the original gray, which was squared off and taped over when painted.
The decks were Deck gray in the states. "deck Green" at Rendova.
To add to the confusion, the areas that appear shaded are actually light blue gray stripes with black. The white was painted over with a greenish yellow concoction when they arrived in the Solomons.
Here is a really good example of what is required:
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/pt-174/4116
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zeusbheld
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2014 - 8:20am
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that narrows the questions down to what is "deck green" according to Rendova... and what is "light green."
I'm going to try to find out what the standard base pigments were for the Navy base colours at the time. I don't think the green can be too dark because in black and white photos it looks light even in the shadows.
I suspect they used something oddball like zinc chromate primer as a key ingredient, given that it would have been available. This would mix to a light enough, yellow enough green to read as light as the stripes in the photos of the 167 with the big hole in it.
Hard to say given the likely lighting conditions. the good news, I suppose is that living in Thailand I ought to be able to do fairly plausible camera tests as the lighting conditions ought to be similar. <>
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TED WALTHER |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2014 - 2:07pm
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Zues;
I don't know if you want to use strictly modeling paints, I don't. I am current using a combination of sprays, for deck green I am currently using Rustoleum Camouflage spray paints, 1919 deep forest green and I weather it with Model Master FS 34102 Medium Green.
Just a suggestion.
Take care,
TED
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zeusbheld
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2014 - 4:01pm
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I'm not necessarily committed to modeling paints but it's a lot easier to get Gunze Sangyo's Mr. Hobby paints or Tamiya paints around here than Rustoleum.
I may use art paints if I can identify the pigments in the greens. I think (hope?) acrylics will hold up well enough to the occasional zip around the lake. I'm getting the Snyder and Short color chips to help with mixing colors but I think with field colors i'll probably have to be guessing and winging it.
Ted, you mentioned you have about 20 adaptor scheme photos. Any boats besides 170 showing all 3 views?
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2014 - 9:20pm
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Zeus;
Yes, I have several of PT 139, PT 169 AND PT 171.
Take care,
TED
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Sep 28, 2014 - 9:47pm
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Ted and Z,
I think you should consider this Adapter Scheme! Pretty cool huh? It makes me dizzy just imagining a boat painted like this! Hah Hah! This is especially for Frank to look at. Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR |
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zeusbheld
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Sep 29, 2014 - 3:39am
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Jerry, that's a very interesting scheme, and I think I've got enough views. Only two problems:
1) The pink looks like Mountbatten pink but what's that green?
2) What boat is it? The camouflage works so well I can't even tell if it's an Elco or Higgins...
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