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 Author  Topic: Elco 80' Future Feasibility?
Sean Grogan

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Sean Grogan  Posted on: Feb 15, 2014 - 12:23pm
Good day all!

I am new to the forum, but curious what people think.

The two PT boats I am aware of are 658 out west, and 305, down south, both of which are Higgins. I have an interest in the Elco PT's and have a bit of a far out there idea, but thought Id run it through everyone on here.

I am interested in seeing if there is enough documentation, and resources to create a Elco PT boat *full scale, and to spec*. The biggest obstacles other then funding that I can see are complete enough documents to build all parts to spec, hardware, weapons (namely torpedoes, stern guns, depth charges), and probably most important, 3 Packard 4m series engines.

If my understanding of the PT 305 is correct, its close to 5 Million dollars in restoration fees, is it possibly less to just start from scratch? I have some ideas floating around about funding sources, and what not, but am curious peoples opinions.

Let me know what you think!


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Andy Small

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Andy Small  Posted on: Feb 15, 2014 - 6:48pm
Sean,

Huckins Yachts are still around and have quoted a figure of 3 million to build a copy of a Huckins PT boat. I would think they would also be capable of building an ELCO style boat for a similar amount, maybe even less since the ELCO boats were a more simple construction method without all the lamination moldings.

In my opinion, it would be awesome to have Huckins build a Huckins PT Boat. It would make a great documentary and would be great opportunity for the remaining PT Boat builder.

Cheers,
Andy


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Feb 15, 2014 - 7:46pm
Sean;
Welcome aboard. I suggest you go to: http://www.fleetobsolete.org/
this organization owns the last two Elco 80 PT Boats and the Last Elco 77' PT Boat, as well as another Higgins 78' PT Boat.
Take care,
TED


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Sean Grogan

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Sean Grogan  Posted on: Feb 15, 2014 - 7:51pm
Andy,

Thank you for the feed back! That information I was not aware of. Being in school still I dont have anything near enough to pay for such a project, let alone a single engine, but one day in the future, either by contacting Huckins, or figuring out a way to finance it, I think bringing a third vessel to light would be something amazing.

I know personally I first heard of the PT boat when watching the 1963 PT 109 movie, and have loved the boats since.

Thanks!
Sean


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Feb 16, 2014 - 4:53am
Hi Sean,
I admire your enthusiasm! If I may ask, where are you located? You may be more successful in "getting your feet wet" by becoming involved with the volunteers working on restoring the existing boats. Your list left some off, there are two boats PT617 (80 foot Elco) and PT796 (78 ft Higgins) located in the Battleship Cove museum in Fall River, Mass. Don Shannon, the PT Boat curator is always looking for talented and dedicated volunteers to help him work on the PT Boats there. Also, if you are near Central Texas, the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg has the Higgins PT309. It is also in need of volunteers. Also, the guys up at the Liberty Aircraft Museum in Port Clinton, Ohio are working on restoring 70foot Vosper boat PT728. New Orleans has the PT305 that they have almost completely rebuilt from scratch. We are also looking for volunteers as well on the PT658 here in Portland.

Also, most of these groups with the boats, especially New Orleans, Portland, and Fall River have a lot of experience in obtaining items needed for the boat restoration and fitting them out. In addition to this, they also have some real life experience in doing exactly what you are considering. Both New Orleans and Portland have only recently completed major hull replacement work, and have learned a lot of lessons on how to proceed in building a boat from scratch. You would probably benefit from questioning these groups and learning what you can before you attempt to go it alone. This does not even mention the huge undertaking of finding enough financing to do what you are talking about. Here in Portland, we have spent about $500-$750,000 and we started with a floating boat. We are STILL working on a more complete restoration. To make one from scratch would be much, much more, and a lot of that depends on if you can get volunteers or will you be paying a group of professional boat builders to do the work? I wonder if you have ever heard that old saying, that the word BOAT stands for Bust Out Another Thousand! Just a few things I thought you may want to consider before jumping in with both feet! Take care and good luck!

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

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Sean Grogan

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Sean Grogan  Posted on: Feb 16, 2014 - 8:12am
Hello Jerry,
That is a lot of good information! One of the reasons I was thinking of scratch building was I was not aware of any hulls still around, but TED mentioned Fleet Obsolete, and if they had something to restore, that would be more cost effective then starting from scratch (besides, those hulls likely have an amazing story behind each!)

As far as location goes, I am from Minnesota, and am still currently in college. We have a few local places that restore vintage aircraft, and that's about it. I know in the Duluth area, there are some wooden boat builders, and restoration companies (specifically dealing with wooden boats).

Another good point you brought up was the cost, its not cheap to restore and get a piece of wood and metal back in its original shape. That is one thing I have been thinking about as well. We have the the Minnesota Historical Society, Lake superior marine museum, and a few other entities that could likely help. Another idea I have been kinda brainstorming, is having a travel trailer, and bringing the boat to state fairs, Car shows (with having 3 V12 Packards, Im sure people would love to hear them start) or even events like Oshkosh to display the boat, and help with financing, similar to what they do for some aircraft (B-24 and B-17). Now there are some logistical problems, like being 20' wide, but its a thought.

Thank you for your time!

At the moment, one of the largest obstacles is finding people interested to help with the endeavor. As well as how to transport a hull from NY to MN. If I knew people were interested, and we were able to arrange the funds and restoration, I would do it in a heartbeat!

-Sean


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Sean Grogan

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Sean Grogan  Posted on: Feb 20, 2014 - 5:12pm
As a follow up, if there is anyone in the Minnesota, or Wisconsin area that might be interested, feel free to let me know, pm or what not works, if a few people are interested we could look at the feasibility of such a project.

Thank you all for your help! Probably one of the best forums I have been on to date!

-Sean




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John Riddle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of John Riddle   Send Email To John Riddle Posted on: Feb 24, 2014 - 8:22am
Sean:

I'm a builder in Ohio and bid on a "restoration" of a Vosper PT boat a couple of years ago. "Restoration" is in quotes because it would have essentially been a new build. The idea was to create a low-maintenance version of the original by using WEST system methods in order to eliminate or reduce the long-term maintenance and repair costs that are inevitable with purely original construction techniques. In other words, epoxy would do the job that resorcinol glue, bedding compounds and painted sealers did in the original construction.

Other than that concession to modern wood construction technique, the boat was to follow the original plan. It would be painted and outfitted by volunteers after the construction was completed. It turned out that the group I was to contract with decided to save money by going with a more traditional "rebuild" instead, using all volunteer labor led by a paid foreman with some (unknown to me) level of expertise.

I should mention that a significant factor in planning the new build was the expectation that the boat would be powered to achieve its designed speeds and would be regularly run at speed on the open lake for demo rides, etc. At the time I was still involved, I knew of no operational PT boat capable of doing that. It is my opinion that long term high-speed operation would require continuous repair and maintenance to the hull structure of any boat built, or rebuilt in the original way, especially any boat whose structure is still mostly original.

If you ever get to a place where you're seriously considering a new build, I'd love to discuss it with you.

Best regards,

John




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james melanson

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of james melanson  Posted on: Feb 24, 2014 - 9:07am
Did you quote on the PT 724?? She was converted into a yacht but has been out of the water for some time and fallen in a state of disrepair (like they all do)


jim

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John Riddle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of John Riddle   Send Email To John Riddle Posted on: Feb 28, 2014 - 12:50pm
Yes - it was the 724. They dismantled much of the house structure before they pulled the plug on my involvement and ended up buying 728 from Fleet Obsolete. That's a Vosper broken-sheer design also but it was reconfigured to look like an Elco by whoever had it before Fleet Obsolete. That's the boat the volunteer crew has been working on but they didn't put it back in its original Vosper form - they just rebuilt the shape they started with.

It's going to look good when they relaunch but they made some choices in materials and techniques that I think they may regret in a few years - if they learn enough between now and then to understand what happened.


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