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 Author  Topic: PT-20 drawings?
Pat Matthews

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Pat Matthews  Posted on: Dec 16, 2013 - 5:08pm
Well, I may be building another 77 footer model, a follow on to the PT-41 I started a decade ago or so:
http://matthewsmodelmarine.wordpress.com/writings/pt-41-building-one-of-the-expendables/
And I want to do better this time!

That one was built with drawings printed from NARA microfilm- really awful stuff, most are illegible at best. I know that the films at HQ are much better, but I haven't paid attention for a long time- has anyone made all these Elco PT-20 series detail drawings available, in any format? I'd really like to get better views of these construction drawings!

Also, I downloaded a ZIP file someone posted, for the Mk 18 tubes- great stuff! But, I neglected to write down the poster's name- whom do I have to thank for that?
But wait there's more- In going through those Mk 18 drawings, I see a couple details missing from the set:
- Forward tube mount structure
- Any sort of detail on the bracing rods and their attachment

Any chance either are available anywhere?


Thanks,
Pat M


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 2:51am
The torpedo tube drawings are from the collection of Al Ross Pat. He generously copied them and mailed them to me. I spent a week scanning and stitching them. I'm glad you're going to make good use of them! As for the missing ones, as far as I know they are not available, at least not yet. Here's a list of the drawings missing from the set:

318390 - Training Gear Arrangement And Details
328260 - Welded Turntable
328262 - For'd Support & Details
328261 - Aft Support

Pity about the microfilm... I may be wrong but I think I remember hearing that the HQ film is the same as the roll Dick had scanned.



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Pat Matthews

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Pat Matthews  Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 4:49am
Thanks for that, Jeff!

Where are these scans by Dick?

A few years ago, I examined the films at HQ- they were in perfect shape, nice clear originals. Wish I had a portable scanner with me then. The NARA films I received look to be bad copies of copies.

I once received a snippet of that forward support from Al via fax... I'll go hit him up again!


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Pat Matthews

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Pat Matthews  Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 5:56am
Ah, I see Dick's dvds at HQ... order incoming!


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 7:26am
I wouldn't call the 77' drawings "crystal clear", if anything they are a bit lower quality than the 80' ones. Although the offsets drawing is mostly a blur, the lines drawing is pretty clear. Got to get the hull right eh? Check this thread for further info: http://www.ptboatforum.com/cgi-bin/MB2/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1538&sc=20&pg=1&x=0

It would be interesting to see what HQ has in the way of microfilm.



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Pat Matthews

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Pat Matthews  Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 7:40am
The HQ films are an original back-up set of films from the factory, saved only because an engineer (I forget the name...) kept the set at his house. They are PERFECT. They're in strips of 4 negatives, I think in paper sleeves iirc.

Back in the day (and through the 80's for sure), it was common to distribute sets of engineering drawings on 35mm films to disparate locations, so that paper didn't have to be sent everywhere. Each site would have a viewer, and for some extra $$, the viewer would include a printer using the OCE process... the print came out somewhat wet and smelling of chemicals...

Pat


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Ed B

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Ed B  Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 11:02am
Pat
I'm sure you're referring to the set of Elco film strips that I donated about 10 years ago after cleaning out my father's attic. I'm glad that someone has taken the time to review and appreciate them, and perhaps found them useful. But I'm quite certain the as found collection did not include an index of drawings. Do you know if anyone has since made such an index?

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Pat Matthews

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Pat Matthews  Posted on: Dec 17, 2013 - 2:18pm
Well I'll be! Thanks for that Ed... and I hope I have the story at least half right?

And no, I don't recall seeing any index. It's the sort of thing I'd love to do (scan and index them, and maybe cross-ref them to Dick's work)... but they're in Memphis, and I'm not!


Pat M


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Ed B

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Ed B  Posted on: Dec 18, 2013 - 9:52am
You pretty much got the story right. One reason the film strips are so clear (other than the fact that they are indeed factory strips and not copies of copies) is that they never saw the light of day (literally) for 50 years. One thing that always concerned me though was how complete/incomplete that collection was. I can't readily find my record of how many strips there were, but I seem to recall it was around 120 (or 220?). At 4-5 images per strip, that's only about 500 or 1,000 max drawings all together, which seems quite low since there were 70' and 77' drawings included as well as the 80'. I am ignorant, however, concerning just how many drawings would have been produced for any given class of PTs.

As far as the difficulty of your scanning/indexing them since they are at HQ in TN, I do recall Alyce once asking me if I knew anything about you, because you had approached her about borrowing them for your research. Well, 10 years or so I didn't know anything of you and thus couldn't vouch for you, so I guess she was understandably reluctant to loan them out. Maybe now that we all know a lot more about you, perhaps HQ might reconsider. Worth a shot anyway. I would think the value of having an index could be incredibly helpful to the community.

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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Dec 18, 2013 - 5:15pm
Hi Ed . . .

Glade to hear from you.

I've tried repeatedly for more than seven years to borrow them as well as all the other microfilm at HQ., to no avail. They just will not release them or loan them out of the HQ archives. It's for the fear of losing them or damage that might occur in transit or at someone else's hands. I've even mentioned that you had asked me to barrow your donated microfilm, and again no luck.

I offered to have them scanned by my profession microfilm house at my cost, then I would create exclusive DVD's for HQ to sell, as a fund raising tool, just like my DVD sets I furnish to them free to sell at what ever price they wish. This was also offered for many items, including other microfilm on file, digital conversion of all the film footage, and many of the specialty books and manuals at HQ. Specially the four-volume set of Assembly Instructions for Elco 80 kit boats sent to the west cost. I offered to produce all at my cost with the caveat that I would keep one copy for my private use, and produce data and video DVD's for HQ to sell to all interested.

Microfilm scanning - I've tried to scan my purchased microfilm on my flatbed scanner with film inserts and to other slide scanners devices, all with less than desirable results. First the microfilm frame size, although 35mm film, is larger than a photo slide resulting in image cut-off. It wasn't until later that I sent them out to a company that knew what they were doing on specialized microfilm scanners. Scans were Bi-Tonal TIFF files (42" x 20" finished size approx.) at 300 DPI, resulting in a very large 8 - 9 mb file each at 12,000 x 6,000 pixels.

Pat:

The scans on the DVD sold by HQ, were scanned from reels of microfilm purchased from the NARA and film reels graciously loaned to me by Al Ross.



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