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Topic: pt washes up in solomons after earthquake |
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Drew Cook
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Apr 28, 2007 - 5:45pm
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Frank,
I certainly understand and acknowledge the validity of your point on the numerous (non-PT 109) Kennedy scandals and cover ups -- they're a matter of record. I'm just a little tired of all the negative revisionist history ("JFK was careless - JFK screwed up!") on the 109 ramming over the last 25 years or so, which I think is off the mark (and I don't think you were even really making that point).
I, like yourself, wish the Ballard expedition had explored a lot further into what they found than they did. I've always had the feeling they were rather rushed and unprepared to do any excavation/exploration of the wreck if they found it, but then Ballard always seems to have had that "I'll find 'em and photograph 'em, but I won't touch 'em!" attitude on all his deep-sea discoveries.
I thought Ballard would have at least had a sand-blower device on his remote vehicle, but... And I guess they didn't want to chance a manned submersible, in case that old Mark VIII torpedo blew.
I'm with you -- I would have loved to see engines, or guns, or anything else... but I still think there's a pretty good chance that tube and torp are from the 109.
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Frank J Andruss Sr
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 Posted on: Apr 29, 2007 - 4:00am
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I never really took that type of stand that Kennedy had screwed up, because I believe that he did not. Years later when I had become very good friends with Gerard Zinser, we had talked many many times about PT 109 and the INCIDENT. For years people kept telling me that the Crew would never say that Kennedy did anything wrong bcause he got them their jobs in life and although that is somewhat true, he did clear the way for some of the Crew to hold different jobs in GOVERNMENT. I say SO WHAT. Why should he not try to help those guys. Some became friends and lets face it, who doesn't try to help people who know each other move ahead. Zinser always felt that Kennedy was a wonderful guy and a real down to earth Skipper. He would say that SHAFTY always was willing to get his hands dirty and when we were ship-wrecked he never let us get down. He stayed positive thruout the whole affair.
That was one opinion because really the whole Crew had passed on and there was no one else to talk to about kennedy until I had found out last year that one more Crewmember was alive and well. Gunners Mate Maurice Kowal. Although Kowal was not on the 109 during the Crash, he did serve on the 109 before that time frame and then again on PT 59. We talked for many hours about Kennedy and again this was another Crew memeber that just thought kennedy was the greatist. A good Skipper and good boat handler was how he described him. He also remebers how during his time with the 109, they often ran on only one engine to keep the wake down, keeping the 2 wing engines running but out of gear. Men sleeping on the deck was common with shifts of 4 hours on and 4 hours off. The only thing that was related to me was some of the Crew felt it was bad luck to carry 13 people on Patrol and that the 13th person suffered from night blindness, found out later on. Of course this was Barney Ross.
Also years later, I became friends with Larry Olgivie, who was a gunners mate on PT 162. This boat, as you know was a part of a three boat patrol with PT 109 and PT 169. Larry remembered that night like it was yesterday and sent me a 17 page hand written letter on the INCIDENT. He was manning one of the twin 50's on his boat and said that the night in question was so dark you could not see your hand in front of your face. He never thought Kennedy was to blame but carried the guilt of not going back to look for the Crew. Olgivie never knew a Japanese Destroyer was around until he saw the tremendous explosion which lit up the sky. Olgivie said they never fired a shot at that Destroyer because it happened so fast and caught them off guard. Their Skipper just reversed course and took off. He said that the crew begged their Skipper to go back, but he never did listen. Olgivie met Kennedy years later during his Political run for office, with Kennedy saying. "Why did you guys not come back to look for us" He was bitter about that for many many years after.
I guess in closing, I can say with a straight face that Kennedy was not to blame for the INCIDENT, although many will always try to figure out why a fast PT Boat got hit by a Destroyer. I too wish more could have been done to really make me feel that they found the 109 other then a torpedo tube. I guess we may never know why more diving was not done on the site to try and locate those engines or other parts from the boat. Now I will sit here and wait to see what the recently discoverd, although my money is that it is not a PT Boat.
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bob wallace
New Member
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Posted on: Apr 29, 2007 - 7:37pm
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thank you , guys for the insight on the recent CNN pt boat article- I appreciate all your information.
you guys are the best,
Bob wallace
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kendall strehle
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Posted on: Apr 30, 2007 - 5:31am
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has there been any more info from the site? any pictures. i read blurb on cnn but nothing more. kind of surprised that pictures havent made their way on to the net.......very interesting
kendall p. strehle
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Drew Cook
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Apr 30, 2007 - 12:43pm
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I saw a FOX NEWS blurb on the story, with generic video footage of some tsunami-damaged areas in the Solomons. As read by the reporter, the story was basically the original AP story -- with no film footage or photos of the wreckage in question.
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Jerry Gilmartin |
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Posted on: Apr 30, 2007 - 10:05pm
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Ok I have to get my 2 cents in! I agree with Frank and Will. After seeing just how rotten the wood on the PT658 and PT659 were before we started restoring them, (and they were not sunken in tropical warm South Pacific seawater!) it is extremely hard to believe that they found what could have been a PT Boat with the "hull still intact and filled with explosives"....I for one am not buying this story. Leave it to CNN to report something like this with no proof or evidence that what they are reporting is true. How come no photographs? Couldn't they have included a photo of this supposed PT Boat, or is it just make believe? Something smells fishy about this whole AP story to me. Like Frank, until I see a picture of a Packard engine and a torpedo or something concrete like that I am not accepting this as fact. Just my opinion....Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin |
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: May 28, 2007 - 5:15am
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Hey message board residents! I found it was definitely a Japanese Barge aka "a Lugger"
see the article on pacificwrecks.com for a photo. To get there go to
www.pacificwrecks.com
, then click on "May News Update" then on the link "American remains on Ranonga" then scroll down to where it says Japanese Barge at the bottom of the page. Jerry I hope this link works...
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/other/ranongga.html
Below is the text from the article: The picture is only viewable from their website.
History
Wooden hulled boat, rougly 110' long. Possibly a prewar colonial ship that was captured by the Japanese in the Solomons or another location. Employed by the Japanese as a coastal transport.
Wartime History
In the later stages of the Solomons campaign, the Japanese were using small vessels to try and sneak supplies and munitions around. These vessels were often wooden pre-war fishing luggers or coasters.
When the Japanese first invaded the British Solomon Islands Protectorate, there were many wooden vessels in the area that were captured by the Japanese and used or were scuttled/burned by evacuation missionaries or traders when they pulled out. These wooden vessels met this end in Jan - August 1942. Roughly there would have been about 30 or more of these vessels scattered through the Solomons, and the Japanese did use some. They belonged to traders, government, and mission stations. Sunk off Ranongga Island.
Shipwreck
After a severe April 2, 2007 earthquake and tsunami this shipwreck was exposed above sea level. An April 27, 2007 AP Report erroneously reported the wreck as a PT Boat. Rather, the wreck proved to be a Japanese barge instead.
Ewan Stevenson adds:
"I have done a little 'work' on this wreck and there seems a possibility of a strong New Zealand connection! I first read about the wreck in the NZ Herald newspaper here too amongst the Tsunami news. It said it was Japanese. Little did the newspaper here know that the wreck was possibly the victim of the New Zealand Air Force strike on August 26, 1943. One thing is for sure, it is not a USN PT Boat. The PT boat losses are very well recorded and the location of their losses is also well recorded. None are lost at Ranongga. [ Read Stevenson Full Report ]
References
Thanks to Ewan Steveson, Peter Flahavin, John Innes and Danny Kennedy for additional information.
Jerry Gilmartin |
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Drew Cook
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: May 29, 2007 - 12:40pm
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Ha! A Jap barge! I thought it might be.
Thanks, Jerry.
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Bill Manley
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jun 3, 2007 - 6:59am
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The Pacific Wrecks Unit Now called Pacific Ghosts inspected the boat and identified it as a Japaneses barge. I investigate WWII PT Boat MIa's in the South Pacific. I have also worked with the JPAC Units.
Bill Manley |
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Shaneo2
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jun 1, 2008 - 8:36pm
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Just looking throught this post, and was going to post a link to pacificwrecks.com- but someone already did.
I, having nowhere the knowledge of many on this forum, thought it doubtful of being a PT when I first heard the story.
I been in Mangroove s nearby, and saw Japanese barges with straffing holes all around the sheild to protect the captain.
Just recently talked on the phone to a US Army veteran of the 161 reg. He told me another barge story. Seems they had crossed New Georgia and were on the top of a hill looking down at the water off in the distance.
He said "they could see all the Japanese in the barge's"- then around the "corner", comes some US Navy Destroyers which sunk them...
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