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Topic: New photo of PT 109 under JFK comes to light |
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Jeff D
Moderator
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Posted on: Mar 22, 2015 - 4:01am
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I could have eliminated many posts on our favorite and sometimes obsessive subject.
Since when have we let facts get in the way of a good debate?
Good job narrowing it down.
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 22, 2015 - 8:38am
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Jeff;
I think that green is a little too light/
Take care.
TED
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Total Posts: 3058 | Joined:
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Jeff D
Moderator
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Posted on: Mar 22, 2015 - 4:03pm
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Is this closer?
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Matthew Waki
New Member
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Posted on: Mar 23, 2015 - 1:34pm
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Hello guys,
I haven’t lurked here for a while or posted for quite some time. As some of you know I’ve long been working on a book about PT 109. As my previous posts stated, my initial research started in 1999 and covered many other boats; so the information I gathered covers a wide range. I don’t want to go into too much detail lest I compromise salability of the completed project, but this is what I believe to be true…
Late 1942–mid-1943 PT boat squadrons generally had the same paint scheme applied throughout the squadron while stateside and in transit to the South Pacific. Based on the well-known stateside photos showing the initial dark scheme carried by RON 5 and the lighter appearance of 109 on Stanton, RON 5 might have been an exception. Possibly because the squadron was the first with the eighty-footers. Once RON 2 and the other early squadrons moved into the South Pacific, no single scheme can be assumed to have remained on or applied to all the boats. Some were painted green, many others remained gray. The information I have based on boat logs and recollections of a PT 109 crewmember, 109 remained gray throughout the Guadalcanal Campaign. The sources corroborate each other. A memory could be incorrect, or a log entry not performed, however, the separate data points I have are not contradictory. The anecdotal evidence based on generalities within the squadron might suggest PT 109 could have been painted green at Noumea. However, my research specific to 109 indicates otherwise.
I thought it best to put this small bit of my research into the mix. I realize I might cause some heartburn or muddy the water more (sorry, couldn’t help using the pun) by not going into more detail, but again, I don’t want to compromise my book’s salability. As is typical of PT 109 related things lately, drawing conclusions on partial information and then stating it as fact is sailing into dangerous waters. (Oh geez, I better stop….)
Matt |
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 23, 2015 - 3:19pm
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THAT'S IT JEFF YOU DID IT!
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 23, 2015 - 4:27pm
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Hi Mathew,
I want to thank you for your fresh perspective and wish you good luck with your book. Just FYI, the info that I posted was from not only a former crewman, but the former skipper of PT109, Bud Larsen, who wrote a 20 page long typed recollection of his time in the Navy (back in 1950's, when his memory was still relatively fresh) for his family to have. It covers the time period from the delivery of PT109 in New York up to when he left the boat about 2 weeks before JFK showed up and took command. In his typed document, he speaks of the painting of the PT109 green just before he left. I am aware that Maurice Kowal who was a friend of Frank Andruss maintained the boat was always "Battleship Grey" So you are right in that it is possible the veterans memories may have made things fuzzy over the years.
Bud Larsen was one of PT658's initial sponsors and he shared his typed story with us but asked that we not publish it for unknown reasons. Just to muddy the waters again, Still I dont imagine this info will diminish any "assumptions or facts" from your book concerning the color of PT109. I think it is just one of those things we may never know for sure!
Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR |
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Matthew Waki
New Member
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Posted on: Mar 25, 2015 - 8:15am
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Hello Jerry,
Thanks for the post. Sorry I haven’t been back in touch with you since our last communications. Been working long hours on this and I got lax with so much to do. Despite what some say, I believe a veteran’s memories are always something that need to be respected and not dismissed as being untrustworthy. It is ridiculous that anyone would dismiss the memory of a combat veteran out of hand. History gets rewritten that way.
After having interviewed so many veterans I’ve found that what they remember is rarely totally inaccurate. The combat memories are sometimes erroneous only because they report what they saw from their position, not necessarily what really happened on the whole. Their accounts need to be cross-referenced to additional accounts and verifiable sources. In other cases, the recall errors are merely in the timeline. This might be the case of the Kowal and Larson recollections. Follow up questioning is critical.
The 109 veteran I mentioned in my post was also Maurice Kowal. I communicated with him back in 2006. At the time, my book was going to be about fifteen other boats and 109 was merely one of them. I was constantly away from home doing contract work and reached dead ends on most of the boats so frustration led me to suspend my research. I again looked at it a few years ago and realizing how much I had on PT 109 restarted it, redirected the focus on her. Most of my PT crew interviews were conducted from 1999-2006. My correspondences with Bob Donavan were in 2000, shortly before his passing. Because I had suspended my research in 2006 I did follow up questioning of all but Mr. Kowal. I now regret that. The sparse information he related to me was also the “Battleship Gray”. I should have followed up.
I’m including quite a bit of the other information I have accumulated in my book so I think it will be of interest to all regardless of its PT 109 focus.
I’ll get back with more you via email.
Later all…
Matt |
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earl
MASTER
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Posted on: Mar 25, 2015 - 7:23pm
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looks like the old pier at sesapi
earl richmond |
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