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 Author  Topic: New photo of PT 109 under JFK comes to light
Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 25, 2014 - 2:51am
That sounds like it wasn't much fun CJ especially the scraping part under the hull.

Thank you for the information about the moss, talk about "experts say"... it don't get more expert than that.

Would you happen to remember roughly what color the moss was? Did you see this question coming? :D



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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Oct 25, 2014 - 8:06am
Quote:
Would you happen to remember roughly what color the moss was? Did you see this question coming? :D

I'm guessing moss-colored :p



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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Oct 25, 2014 - 8:16am
Quote:

Guys I helped scrape and repaint the bottom of PT 242 twice during my 13 months aboard. In dry dock. ( once at Rendova and once at Green). .All I can tell you is that it was red and pretty thick and we applied it with about a 4 inch brush. If I remember correctly it took about all day. At that time we didn't worry about what tint of red it was.

C. J. Willis

I'd imagine you had other things on your mind besides the shade of red at the time!

A million thanks for that. It may seem like a small, trivial detail but just the fact that you remember it as red (not orange) pretty clearly confirms that Copperoyd was an oxide, not pure copper,. I now know what to paint it!

How often did you guys paint above the waterline?About the same, or more often? Another small detail but it will give me a very clear idea of how much the paint should be faded and/or chalked.



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CJ Willis

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of CJ Willis  Posted on: Oct 25, 2014 - 9:37am
Jeff the moss was a greenish color. That moss would eventually collect with crud on the bottom of the boat too which slowed them down. You got top speed out of a boat with a new bottom and new engines. I recall only painting the deck one time during my time on 242. That was at Green Island. I don't believe we ever painted the camouflaged sides of the boat while I was aboard. It was the original paint from the factory. PT 242 was placed in service in New Orleans May 12, 1943 and I went aboard Nov 6, 1943 at Vella La Vella and was relieved from duty aboard in Nov. 1944.

C. J. Willis

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Oct 25, 2014 - 1:50pm
Thank you CJ, that could really add some color and interest to a model. In the right hands which sure wouldn't be mine. I can lay a decent coat down but the weathering the experts do amazes me.

You've probably mentioned it before but thanks too for the painting history, I assumed the whole boat was painted at once. Would you mind if I quoted you on my web sites color page?



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Roy Forbes

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Roy Forbes  Posted on: Oct 27, 2014 - 10:36am
Well guys here is another wrench in the convoluted copperiod color question on bottom colors. I used Krylon's Georgia Clay on the 623. The color of the can top I thought was perfect but it dried just a shade more red. Still dark and still a brownish red however, in the photos I have posted in the bright daylight, it appears redder than it actually is. With that said I now use a mixture of British Crimson & Insignia Yellow for the Italeria boats on the diorama. Drew, that Georgia Clay might be what you were talking about.

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zeusbheld

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of zeusbheld  Posted on: Oct 27, 2014 - 7:39pm
CJ,
That business about the moss, and how often you painted the decks is really an incredibly valuable bit of information for modelers. I may not be the guy who can get the mossy crud just right but I'm sure going to give it a go.

Bangkok is not that far from the beach (few hours from the nicer ones) and we like the more deserted beaches that are populated mostly by fishing boats, so I should be able to find some real examples of the mold to look at.

Roy
If it really is CU20 then it could be quite red,. As a pigment it can create a range of colors; In powder form I've seen orangey (probably only partially oxidized) but also a very deep, almost blood red, a darker brick red, and even a near purple.

Given that the paint is meant to poison barnacles (and moss), it's reactive, so there's bound to have been some variation on the real boats even if it came out of the factory a very consistent color.

"Brick red": bricks are red 'cause they're made from clay. Clay (like Georgia Clay) is red because of Iron Oxide (a rust-red, because it IS rust). Anti-fouling paint's generally made from copper but to my eye a lot of anti-fouling paint can pass for Iron Oxide red in spite of the different chemistry.

So the bottom line to my eye is that you can't go too far wrong unless you're building one of the boats (Ron 12 boats, I can't remember exactly which ones) which Desolve wrote were painted, while in transit, with a pure copper antifouling (which would be orangey when new and greenish after a while).


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Mar 17, 2015 - 12:07pm
Not to re-open old wounds, but page 55 of Allan Lawrence's DEADLY PT PATROLS (which seems to be meticulously researched) states that on or about "Monday, November 30 [1942]", while at Noumea, PT-109 "was camouflaged in dark green paint and otherwise made combat-ready".

Will

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Mar 17, 2015 - 2:18pm
This would be when Bryant Larson first arrived in the combat zone. Way to got Will, you did it again!
Take care,
TED


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Mar 17, 2015 - 5:30pm
Hi Dick and Will and Ted,
I remember reading this on Gene Kirkland's "PT King" website, it is in the narrative called "The unknown history of PT109". He talks about the fact that they painted the PT109 Green during an upkeep period. I also just tried to access this PT King website Dick, and the link seems to be broken. Can you fix that for us Dick? Gene has a very informative site.
Thanks Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin
PT658 Crewman
Portland OR

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