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 Author  Topic: Italeri PT 157 in 10 days.
Roy Forbes

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Roy Forbes  Posted on: May 11, 2013 - 4:25pm
Well I have made a rushed decision to crack open one of my 109 kits and see if I can put together a PT 157 in 10 days and take her to the Mount Airy get together with Bridge, Skipper Liebenow and Torpedoman West. This will also become the first boat to arrive at the "What If' diorama after all my palm trees start to grow. I seem to have run into several issues and would like a few thoughts from some of you. First off is the rather obvious funny shaped front slope of the bridge. At first I just thought it was a mistake but further research opened the possibility that Italeri was trying to mold in some kind of windscreen cover that is very visible on the cover of Bridge's great book "First-Up". And this is where my second problem begins. The horn seems to be positioned on the starboard side of the bridge wall tucked back and under the forward turret and not on the chart house roof. I have also found photos of the 154, 156 and 134 boats that seem to indicate this change. I'm wondering if this was done in Bayonne contrary to the official plans and if so, could the horn placement on the 109 also be incorrect?



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Bob Butler

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Bob Butler  Posted on: May 11, 2013 - 6:16pm
Here's a photo I found somewhere on the net. Hope this helps...

photo

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 5:17am
Hi Roy, good luck with the speed build!

On the 103-196 and 314-367 series boats, according to Elco drawings, starting with PT 139 the horn was changed to a curved bell model and moved to the starboard side of the bridge. But like you found with the 134, photos sometimes show differences. Here's a shot of PT 127 with a vibratory type horn (like on the aft 20mm limiting stop brace to the engine hatch) on the side of the bridge: http://www.pt127.org/crew/douglas_rj/photos/pages/CockPitStanding_tif.htm.

The horn on the chart house roof for the 109 should be correct. Shots of the 107 can be found here: http://pt-king.gdinc.com/PTsquadronfive.html



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  Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 7:26am
I built the scratchbuilt 1/24th scale RC model of PT-157, Bob just featured, back in 1993. I was in contact with Mr. Liebenow in the late 80's via Snail Mail. Modeling stopped on the 157 for a time until info for the Mk-12 turret mount was found. One picture of the MK-12 20mm turret mount became featured in the PT Newsletter in 1991 was the first break discovered on the mounts appearance and decided to use it. The 157 model was finished in time for the 1993 National Reunion held in Milwaukee. After the reunion more pictures and info of the Mk-12 started showing up and by 2003 enough was found to make an accurate drawing of this mount which have been featured numerously all over this Forum. My model has depth charges on the stern which were thought to be located there at the time of the build. Installed the dinghy over the life raft as was suggested. I knew the horn was on the starboard side of the bridge at the time but had no clue as to what it looked like so I made an old style and placed it in that location. The aces n Eight's Insignia I also got wrong, to me two of the cards appeared to look like clubs instead of spades. The model was the only boat I ever made that was a horrible runner. Could have used Dan Jamieson's expertise. But used its good looks for display purposes. After 5 years on loan to the Kenosha Military Museum the model began to show its age by 2004. I began rebuilding the model but life got in the way and the as is Model was eventually sold to a guy in New Mexico. Last news was the as is model still resides in the box it was shipped in.


2005 photo of 1/24th scale PT-157 after a five year display tour at the late Kenosha Military Museum.


Post 1993 reunion operation a rare day that the model ran well


Second good run on the the same day.



PT's 155,156, 157 and a couple of other boats whose numbers have escaped me at the moment, have the starboard windshield bridge area sloped so that the lower portion of the Mk-12 mount clear this portion of bridge windsheild while traversing. Nat Smith's pictures of his fathers PT-154 show a different designed lower mount that clears the factory built bridge wind shield.

Wayne

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 8:48am
Excellent model Wayne, not to mention being R/C and it was built back when sketchy information was available with no internet to hop on and do research. She looks great in the water too.

Here's a screenshot from the movie They Were Expendable showing the vibratory horn, be careful using this Hollywood shot as a reference although it is an authentic early 80' Elco: http://www.pt103.com/images/asst/TheyWereExpendableScreenshotBridgeFwdStbd.jpg. I'd guess that the boat originally came with a curved bell horn, if I remember right PTs 139-141 were used in the movie?

You can see a curved bell horn on PT 154 in Nat Smith's photobucket album Wayne mentioned here: http://s130.photobucket.com/user/ptboats/media/Nathaniel%20Smith/PT154-4.jpg.html?sort=3&o=157. Sad caption to the image: "Artie Schwerdt QM Nov 1942 to Nov 1943 Killed in action of Shortland Is".



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Roy Forbes

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Roy Forbes  Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 9:21am
Well that information is outstanding. Thank you all very much for the replys and time you spent posting the photos and links.

Jeff, those photos are like walking back in time and I had only seen 1 or 2 of them in publications.

Wayne, your boat is beautiful and to think it was your first. How cool is that. However, I could have never have parted with it. My first 5 footer, the PT 326 which is shown in "Knights of the Sea" is rather worn out after sitting around here and there for almost 40 years and several trips across the country. The 327 is still looking great under glass in Fall River for the past 35 years and the 623 is still waiting for me to finish that Daihatsu barge!!
I think you should contact that fellow in NM and see if maybe you could get it back. Better yet, see if I could pick it up. I'm right next door in AZ.

Thanks again guys for all your help and I'm now off to move my horn before she heads to the paint shop tomorrow morning.


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Wayne Traxel

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Wayne Traxel   Send Email To Wayne Traxel Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 11:23am
Thanks Jeff and Roy. The 157 wasn't my first, it was one of my last completed scratch builds. My first was 77'er PT-34 in 1980, Al Ross and His father were the technical advisers, on the 34 project. The first 34 boat wore out and was replaced by a second 34. Six years later the 2nd was replaced by a third. The third 34 was a best build ever and a keeper. I still run PT-34 the 3rd, and probably always will. By the time life got in the way I had 16 boats in various stages of construction 13 were 1/24th scale 77'er's, 80's and Higgins 1/24, a 1/16 scale 77'er, a 1/20 scale 77'er and a 1/12th scale PBR. When Fiberglass PT production began, I ran out of room for mold storage in the 50's style Ranch home basement and something had to go and many of these project boats did. When 157 left all she just was a hull, deck and superstructure with rebuilt gun turrets. Retired now the bug is back. This site of PT vets, researchers, enthusiasts, modelers, etc, etc, provides better and more info. Also newer techniques are available and I know that much better models can be built.

Wayne

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Roy Forbes

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Roy Forbes  Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 4:16pm
Well I sure would love one of those 1/16 77ft hulls. I sure hope you still plan on building more PTs. One can never have enough.

So here is one more question. Did the 157 have that rubber life raft storage box on the starboard side just aft of the day room where the "heater" used to be??. If so, I'll need to get one made tonight before I send her off to the paint shop in the morning.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 5:20pm
Other boats shipping out with her aboard the White Plains seem to show the raft stowage: http://s130.photobucket.com/user/ptboats/library/Nathaniel%20Smith?sort=3&page=4.



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Roy Forbes

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Roy Forbes  Posted on: May 12, 2013 - 7:52pm
That is great Jeff, thank you so much. I used to spend many days during my summer vacations from grammar school jumping from those docks on the Hudson to a New York Central Tug Boat that my dad skippered during my early years. Great memories !!


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