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 Author  Topic: Progress on My PT 109
Bob Butler

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Bob Butler  Posted on: Apr 10, 2013 - 2:06pm
Topic: Progress on my PT109 - Apr 10, 2013 - 1:56pm
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Color is still an issue. I painted the boat US Navy 5NG greeb, Which I really liked and still do but looking at the photos posted of PT 61 with 109 tied up on its starboard side It didn't look right. Two of the crew thought it was dark green and two thought it was dark gray. A number of others said dark gray and dk green also. I'm sure most of you know the debate. In my profession we use somethinf called a SWAG,(Scienctific Wild Ass Guess). I'd painted a 1/72 with White Ensigh Tropical Green and hated that. It is pretty well knowen the paint on the 109 was mixed and not out of the can. So I started experminting with the colors they may have had at the time and came up with a shade of green that looks Dark Gray in full sun and Dk Green in shaded light. A persons degree of color blindness factored in and I feel I'm very close. I've asked some friends what color some said gray and some said green If I can figure out how to attach a photo I will. The boat is 5NG green and the dayroom is my color made with a 1:1 mix of Trolpical green and Deck Gray (White Ensigh Tropical Green and Testors Euro 1 Gray. (FS 36081). PS How do you post a pic?


Photos posted below (Dick):

 photo BB-01.jpg


 photo BB-02.jpg


 photo BB-03.jpg




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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Apr 10, 2013 - 2:26pm

Bob . . .

Email me the photo, I will post it for you.
Click on the email icon above or use the email address below:

dick@ptboatforum.com

Dick . . . .


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Bob Butler

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Bob Butler  Posted on: Apr 10, 2013 - 2:40pm
Dick, Photo's on the way. Please be Gentle and keep in mind this is my guess and I'm not saying this is the color of the 109 but I think I'm on to something.

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 3:46am
Hey Bob, your model is coming along nicely.

There's a post on another forum about her color here, including a color photo of what is probably the 109: http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=202180&ord=&page=5.

It matches what a PT vet said when I asked what color the all green PT boats were, he replied they were GREEN. It makes sense to me, I'm guessing they were trying to match the green of the tropical vegetation, a slightly darker than grass green.



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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 4:59am
Hi Bob,
As Jeff said your boat is coming along nicely. I like the placement of the depth charges. That said the placement on the photo of the 109 on Ballard's book looks like they are set back just a little further and no sign of toe railing. However the photo is not that good and it's hard to say with any certainty.

With respect to those color photos of the 109, I would focus on the boat on the port side of PT-61. That green looks pretty close to the 5NG. When I did my Revell kit I used 4 parts 5NG and 1 part Tropical Green. When I mixed some black and yellow together I was able to come up with a green fairly close to 5NG. Kind of a WAG as you say but it gave some credibility to what I had heard and read before about this field created green paint.

Glad the photos got posted. Please continue to share your work with us!

Dave

PS. The National Geographic Society came back and said they don't have the cover photo in their file.



David Waples

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Stuart Hurley

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Stuart Hurley  Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 5:01am
Bob,
Interesting theory. You do seem to be on to something. I went nuts a few years back trying to figure out the most likely green of 109 and ended up using tropical green on a 1/72 model, which was the fashion at the time. It looks too blue to me now.
Don't know whether you have considered it, but I would now probably go for US Marines green as a starting point (there must have been some of that about, surely) and add grey from there. Looking at the colour photo of the green boat next to the 61 which we have cause to believe is 109, the paint finish seems too neat and uniform to be a just a rush job with any old paint. It certainly seems to look fresh. Which leads me to believe that the colour could have been a common one after all and applied with some care. Just my opinion though. Greens do suffer in sunlight and depending on the pigments can shift drastically to blue or very brown. I have chickened out anyway and I am going for dark grey this time. Keep up the good work, look forward to seeing the finished article.

Best Regards,
Stu.

Measure twice, cut once.




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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 5:06am
By the way Bob, how did you go about fashioning the starboard side day cabin window. Like Stu's it looks real good.
Dave

David Waples

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Bob Butler

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Bob Butler  Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 9:11am

Bob Butler

Apr 11, 2013 - 8:57am
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The window was realy easy. The 109 kit comes with some photo etch frames for the front of the chart house, I just used epoxy to attach one to the window after cutting off the drip rail, it's a perfect fit so don't use to much epoxy. I looked at the cover for Ballard's book too but also trying to line up the camera shot of JFK at the helm, if you look at the uncropped version you can see the forward port depth charge, and to me I think it was moved rearward and inboard.
The color I mixed is really weird. It is a flat shade, for example in the sunlight and on camera the spot of paint I sprayed on the corner of the chart house lights up like a neon light but under my hobbyroom florescent lights you can hardly see it. If you look at the guard rail for the 20mm gun of the 109 in the PT 61 photo it's a green gray, at least to me, that's the color I went after. It looks almost gloss. After posting the pic's yesterday I sprayed a satin finish and that makes the green stand out more. If you look at the group photo on the 109 you can see the light does a washout of the forward deck in the bottom of the picture. I'm going to try a flat finish on the deck and upper surfaces and the satin on the sides. The way light effects color seems to be a lesson I'm learning now.
Also I want to thank you guys for your imput, I value it and your research. GREAT FORUM!









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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Apr 11, 2013 - 8:56pm
Thanks Bob, I had to look at the photoetch fret again to see that there are two sets of Chart House forward window covers. One painted over and one open as you used for your Day Cabin. Good call! I'm going to follow your lead.
Dave

David Waples

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Stuart Hurley

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Stuart Hurley  Posted on: Apr 12, 2013 - 12:58am
Hi,
I needed mine for the front, so had to go with plastic strip.


Best Regards,
Stu.

Measure twice, cut once.




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