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 Author  Topic: Sextant
victorkchun

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 8:15am
Can someone tell me whether the BALL RECORDING SEXTANT,MARK 1, MOD. 0
ever used on PT boat? Thank you guys.
Victor

Victor K Chun

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 9:17am
Victor, that's a good question, although I know they used them extensively for use at night when no Horizon was visible, which is why they found favor among the Airplane Navigators. I think I saw one before and they were small, with no reflecting mirror. Sorry, not sure if they were used in the PT BOATS....................


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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 9:17am
Victor, that's a good question, although I know they used them extensively for use at night when no Horizon was visible, which is why they found favor among the Airplane Navigators. I think I saw one before and they were small, with no reflecting mirror. Sorry, not sure if they were used in the PT BOATS....................


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 3:52pm
Victor;
While I don't know what sextant mark or model was part of the ships allowance list, I know there were several suppliers, and I also know serveral PT Skippers prided themselves on their celestial navagation ablities, such as Jack Searles, Bob Searles, Hank Brantingham, Edgar Hoagland, Ted Robinson, Tom Warfield, Bob Kelly, and of course John Bulkeley.
All of these men in one way or another used these mastered skills for the rest of their lives. I know my Dad's was a Henry Hughes Ltd. London, Sextant. He picked it up in England in 1944.
Take care,
TED


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 6:42pm
Victor I found this photo of the PT364 XO ENS Larry Nash using a sextant while underway. But we went over this a few years ago and decided it was only rarely used as mostly an officers toy. click here to review http://www.ptboats.org/cgi-local/sitenetbbs/netboardr.cgi?fid=102&cid=101&tid=1917&sc=20&pg=1&x=0 It was too difficult to get an accurate fix while underway due to boats movement. Here is the photo. Jerry

PS A Ball Recording Sextant is a standard Mark II marine sextant with a micrometer and a rapid release lever. The artificial horizon in the handle consists of a bunch of small steel balls (Hence the name) that can drop down a cylinder, leaving marks on an inked cloth at the bottom to record the reading. The form was designed by Fred A. Hagger of San Antonio, Texas, and used by the U.S. Navy during World War II I dont know if this photo shows a Ball Recording Sextant or something else.



Jerry Gilmartin

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 9:35pm
Jerry;
I mostly agree with you, but as you know my left coast friend, there will always be an exception or two. QM1/c Edward "NED" Ganley, PT 244(Werewolf)RON 19 and PT 248(Viberatory) RON 20, was a "enlisted" celestial guru. He lived near my mom's home in Melfa, Virginia. He lived near and was a member of The Eastern Shore Yacht Club, which Carlton Byrd, RON 2, 6, 8, 4, 38, was also a member. Ned took to his Quartemaster rating on like a religon, he prided himself on his navigation, and was permitted to be at the wheel of PT 248 most of the time he was assigned to her. Which was since Panama.
Take care,
TED


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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 9:58pm
Jerry;
Also, Get ready...here comes the ultimate PT Boat zinger...(this is why Dick calls me, Will, and Al, evil brothers)....wait for it.......assume the position! QM1/c Albert P. Ross(CDR Albert P. Ross Ret.), PT 34 also prided himself on Celestial Navigation, because ALL the first squadrons QM 1/c and 2/c's were also the relief helmsman/navigator on all the 77' boats. This was all part of the cross training program they started, before the war began.
When the boat did not have a senior QM, the senior BM(Boatswain Mate) was the relief helmsman/navigator, and in both cases, depending on the ablity of the Exec, they might have even been the second Helmsman. Boatswain Mate Chief Charlie Tufts was for a period of time the Exec of PT 48 under Jack Searles, and he was also acting CO of PT 48 during transport to Panama.
Anyway, I know Al is now laughing amid digging through Higgins stuff and all that snow!
Oh by the way, another "Forced" guru was one BMC James Newberry, who if it was not for him taking the wheel, PT 155 would have been as far down as the 109.
Alright Jerry, thanks for being a real true friend and a real sport! I still want to take the wheel of that boat!! So I am going gentle!!LOL!!!
Take care,
TED


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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Jan 2, 2013 - 11:59pm
Ted,
I am a bit confused. I actually like the sextant and am proud to have one on display in the chart room of PT658. I was just reflecting the vehement disagreement shown by "Bobpic" a WW2 vet PT Boater in my last post back in 2010 asking about whether they used sextants on PT boats in WW2. Since Bobpic was a real WW2 PT Boat Quartermaster, I was merely deferring to his superior knowledge of "The way it was" since I myself was not there. So I personally decided to display the gifted Mark 2 Sextant on the PT Boat because in my humble opinion, at least 1 PT Boat did actually use one, and it looks good in the charthouse too! But I freely admit that these sextants were not in common usage on the vast majority of PT Boat crews, I hope that I have clarified my position. Jerry

PS It is hard to forgive you when you go insulting all Higgins PT Boats as "the box that the Elco came in". Bah Humbug

PPS Here is the quote copied from what Bobpic said about whether or not sextants were used on PT Boats:

"Jerry, I have touched on this subject before as a "default navigator".There were a few navigational quality swxtants arounnd but NONE were used within the squadrons for navigation. They were used by the base to fix the exact location of operations aand by the sea bees in planning and laying out bases, docks, etc. Why? Using a sextant requires a very steady platform from wiich to take accurate readings. Can't be done from the deck of a PT underway. A sextant even used by a skilled navigator can not be relied on for an accuracy of better than 8-10 miles.Not good enough. A good star fix takes too much time. A very precise clock is required. Most PT's provided with chronometers did not properly care for them. I am very sure there were some sextants around, mostly as officers toys, but they were never used for boat navigation. Subject to superior intelligencs and higher authority, I say now that NO sextants were ever used as a tactical device in the PT boat service."


Jerry Gilmartin

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 3, 2013 - 12:29am
Jerry;
Point taken. Yes they were a toy, after 1943-44.
Ted



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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Jan 3, 2013 - 12:02pm
I seem remember a story about Kelly taking a bow-and-beam bearing using his forearm during the run south with MacArthur (much to the consternation of one of the onboard senior navy men).

Will

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