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 Author  Topic: Early PT Boat Green- (PT-109) Some ideas.........
PeterTareBuilder

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of PeterTareBuilder  Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 12:55pm
Quote:

Krylon manufactures both lacquer and enamel paints so you need to look at which particular paint and primer combinations you are using. In doing some research some report no problems but other modelers have reported disastrous results with some formulations of Krylon - it's a great product but you have to be sure what you are using.
Jerry

Jerry Beasley



Which is why I read the labels before I buy any spray paint. A lot of times the only giveaway that the paint is a laquer based one is in the instructions for cleanup when it says Cleanup with laquer thinners.

I have used many cans of Krylon paint and have never mistakenly ought a laquer based one.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

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PeterTareBuilder

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of PeterTareBuilder  Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 1:00pm
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Does anyone really think that two boats painted with identical paint at the same time are still going to be absolutely matched after one or two months of exposure to sun and salt air? All I am saying is (as others have stated) that there are probably no "perfect shades" for dioramas of working boats.

Will



No. I mentioned the Krylon Green because I think it is a good starting colour for anyone who is looking for a good approximation. I'm no colour expert but that paint is good enough for me as a base coat prior to weathering etceters.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Dec 3, 2012 - 7:09pm
This thread sure got busy! Looks like I have a couple of questions to address.

Tracy, scale modeling is a hobby I enjoy and I am not an expert in photography and I have not had time to pour through documents in search of the holy grail. I think doing that is a hobby in itself and I commend you for all the research you've done and share with the modeling community. It's incredibly helpful to people like me. Like you though I look for documented evidence supplied by people like yourself. I like photographic evidence as it captures a moment in time and that's what I like to build from. I completely understand what you're saying about veteran's memories as I went through that in my recent PT-505 diorama build and the recollections of Mr. Frank. But veterans recollections are better than no evidence at all and are often very helpful as was the case with Mr. Frank. Evidence for me is information from a variety of sources to use in my interpretation of a model. I know my build isn't going to be 100% perfect but I want to get as close to that as I can at a given moment in time. There is no way I would expect to perfectly match a boat's color, nor do I want to. When I model I take the base color or as close to it as I can from the evidence available and then modify it for scale effect, so at the end of the day it's not going to match a paint chip. But I do want it based off of that color chip or photo. I like White Ensign Model color coats because their paint is well documented. You just have to be careful about some colors like "Tropical Green" which bares no resemblance to the green we're discussing, even though that's what it's supposed to represent. We could go on about this all night and I'm off to a good start.

Hi Matt, you're welcome. That photo is the best evidence we have to the color of PT-109 as well as the other boats in her squadron who were painted green at that particular point in time. The photo I believe belongs to Ted Walther and you can find his postings all over this forum. Ted shared these with me and I'm confident it's very close to what you're looking for. Ted is more familiar than me with this information so I'll let him address it.

Dave

David Waples

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 4, 2012 - 3:47am
One thing is for certain. For a short time at least, the boat was exactly the shade they painted it. As such, if accuracy is the goal then the closer you can get to the actual color the better. Before you consider any weathering because sheltered spots like under torpedo tubes would not weather as badly as roofs. Not to mention most modelers don't attempt the fine art of weathering so they should probably avoid painting a lighter "weathered" shade over the whole boat. It wouldn't look right. Also, for most modelers, a color "close" like Peter's Krylon is just fine. Otherwise, like David said, White Ensign has probably the closest matches.

I think the paint they used would most of the time be mixed from prescribed Navy stock, not from colors scrounged from non-existant jungle hardware stores, and that the shades would be very close to recommendations.

Just thought I'd throw my 1 cent in...



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Tracy White

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 4, 2012 - 8:39pm
Quote:
I think the paint they used would most of the time be mixed from prescribed Navy stock, not from colors scrounged from non-existant jungle hardware stores, and that the shades would be very close to recommendations.



The question is what stock. The Navy didn't really have a ship-based green color until January of 1943, earliest order I have for it to be used (not on PTs though) is April.

There may be another source of green paint though, not necessarily for PT-109 (has it been mentioned when she was repainted? I know some hints have been dropped, but not sure if the general date has been shared).

In 1941 the US Navy released the Passive Defense Handbook, which defined camouflage for shore-based facilities. If you scroll to the bottom of the First Edition, there were color chips released with the booklet and the first one has for greens.

I have zero information about the distribution of paints of any types in the Pacific theaters... it's something I've been keeping my eyes out for. However, it's possible that this could have been a source of color used on earlier boats than 109, if some of the other early boats were painted in anything other than the 5-D/5-O/5-N combos we know about.

Tracy White
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TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 6:22am
I'm just going to offer my 2 cents; you can accept it, or, as you normally do here, totally dismiss it:

The 109 could have been painted in either overall Navy Green or overall Tropical Green, ...




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Drew Cook

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Drew Cook  Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 12:25pm
Guys,

For a great piece of color film footage of a green 80' Elco PT underway, go to YouTube and look up "PT Boats in the Pacific."

It's at about the 33.54 minute mark of the documentary, and goes to about the 34.02 minute mark -- about 8 or 9 seconds worth. You can, of course, advance the clip to that 33.54 minute point, without having to watch the whole thing.

Its probably the best example (of one of the shades) of the green PT color we've all been talking about for years. The boat is fitted with a SCR-517A "beehive" radar. I think it has been previously speculated the boat may be the 149.

I've tried to post a link to the doc, but it won't take for some reason.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 1:03pm
Nice Drew, I don't remember seeing the video before... let me try the url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcfF2OYR5vQ

I took a few screenshots:





Going to go back and watch the whole clip now.



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Matthew Waki

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 1:28pm
I've gotten way behind with work but happened to be running Photoshop so did a quick color correct on the images. Besides the obvious sky becoming bluer and island becoming green the boat colors are interesting. 80' Elco mottling is more pronounced with it being more green as you'd expect. The 77' Elco is really interesting. The gray becomes pretty clearly one of the two early light grays and the green is well, greener. Considering what we've heard about how greens were applied very early in the war it's cool to see.

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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Dec 5, 2012 - 7:06pm
That looks like PT 66! If it is, this and the Elco with the SCR-517 radar is RON 8 In New Guinea 1943. I wish we could clear it up. Wow!!! I never paid attention to these two clips before, and I have watched this show before. I wonder how long the film is that this was cut from.
Take care,
TED


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