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 Author  Topic: Early PT Boat Green- (PT-109) Some ideas.........
Gunner Mike

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 21, 2012 - 11:55pm
Greetings,

I had an opportunity to take some of the color pictures that were posted and run them through a color analyzer at work today. We paint over 30 million lbs of aluminum extrusion a year and mix and tint almost 300 colors.

Our Paint Lab Manager is a master tinter with 25 years in the industry. He has been helping me identify and breakdown everything from the paint of a headlamp guard from an Iraqi T-72 to an interior paint used on the Japanese zero. Both of these these were done from actual pieces.

Needless to say he was challenged trying to match a photo from a PDF file I made from one of the pictures of the depth charges and rear deck of one of the boats. The pictures I am referring to are the first 2 that David Waples posted on my earlier post "Request Permision To Come Aboard" In this picture, it looks like port side boat's paint was fairly new.

We came up with a color very similar to FS 34092 and yes, there is a lot of blue in this color. We then took our file of the Tamiya paints and came up with the following formula.

1 part XF-11 IJN Green
1 part XF-26 Deep Green
1 part XF-50 Field Blue
3/10 part XF-8 Flat Blue
2/10 part XF-19 Sky Gray

The reflectance factor is 58-63 which is somewhere around - Semi - Gloss which is consistent with most of the USN colors for aircraft in WW II. Yes, as the paint is exposed to sunlight and the elements it does get a bit grayer and the gloss factor decreases to a flat color.

To lighten up the color on horizontal surfaces, add more XF-19.

That said, I am trying to match a color from a photograph on a paint that was mixed in the field with whatever they had at hand. There's a lot of variables here, but until someone can get me a 2" x 2" piece of an actual boat from that era to test, all of this is conjecture.

Here's a thought: Japanese aircraft were painted IJN Green, U.S.M.C. equipment was painted a dark green, USN and USMC aircraft were tri-color ( light gray, medium blue and dark blue. At least we know that all of the primary colors were in this area of operations weather they were US paints or captured Japanese paints.

I think the paint fumes are getting to me boys. But I just made my first batch of the stuff and it sure looks good.

Out here.





Mike Witous

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:19am
Hi Mike,
I'm assuming we're talking about the color on the 109. To add to the confusion let's not forget color shifting of the photographs. I'm often reminded of that by others. What I ended up doing was taking 4 parts White Ensign Models 5-NG (Navy Green) and mixing one part White Ensign Models Tropical Green. From there you can lighten or darken with shades of gray. If all those paints mixed together give you something close to what you're seeing in the photos and you're happy with it, then go for it. Otherwise the FS34102 is very close.

Here's a photo of my 1/72 109 model using the above formula...



David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:43am
It might be a bit of overkill here in trying for that perfect match. When you have no color photos to go by, it makes things a bit tough. It is not like trying to paint aircraft of WWII, because there are hundreds of color photos of these planes. We do know that the boats were painted green once in the South pacific. Now with that being said, some models are painted in different shades of green, and unless it is something way out of line, it is pretty tough for anyone to say, your wrong here. The FS color to my knowledge is very close to original. Take into consideration, your weathering of the boat, which will change the shade a bit, but whay Dave has posted here is pretty tough to argue with. I think we have been talking about the color of PT 109 for 10 years now, let's switch the record.


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 7:55am
One last point. Remember that in many instances (especially in those early days in the Solomons) these paint jobs were applied using brushes, mops, and whatever spray eqipment might be at hand. Maybe airbrushing is not always the way to go......

Will

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Gunner Mike

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 11:04am
Quote:

Hi Mike,
I'm assuming we're talking about the color on the 109. To add to the confusion let's not forget color shifting of the photographs. I'm often reminded of that by others. What I ended up doing was taking 4 parts White Ensign Models 5-NG (Navy Green) and mixing one part White Ensign Models Tropical Green. From there you can lighten or darken with shades of gray. If all those paints mixed together give you something close to what you're seeing in the photos and you're happy with it, then go for it. Otherwise the FS34102 is very close.

Here's a photo of my 1/72 109 model using the above formula...



David Waples



Great looking model Dave, The 34102 looks great. Fading, color shift and reflectance all are factors.

34092 is very close to 34102 but with a little more blue. Weathering, filters and washes will certainly affect the overall hue . There is also the "scale effect" to consider.

Being that there is no definitive formula, a medium green works. I am looking forward to the builds of this kit by the guys here. I ordered mine from Freetime and hope it will be released before Xmas.

I look forward to your review.

(I will post some pictures of the 579 boat I built as soon as I figure out how to post pictures)

Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for your advise




Mike Witous

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Temecula Valley Model Club
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Hadly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 11:58am
Mike, here are our web masters videos on posting photos, http://www.youtube.com/rjwgdi/

SH


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Mark Culp

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Mark Culp   Send Email To Mark Culp Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 7:44pm
Will is correct. When the 31 boat was painted green in the Philippines it was painted with mops.


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alross2

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of alross2   Send Email To alross2 Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 7:49pm
Quote:

Will is correct. When the 31 boat was painted green in the Philippines it was painted with mops.





My Dad, who was on the 34 boat, told me the same thing.

Al Ross


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Gunner Mike

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 23, 2012 - 11:06pm
Quote:

Mike, here are our web masters videos on posting photos, http://www.youtube.com/rjwgdi/

SH





Ok I will give it a try


http://s24.beta.photobucket.com/user/CWO3/media/PT%20BOAT/DSCF0138.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9


Mike Witous

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Temecula Valley Model Club
Haud Sceptum Haud Sentio Haud Forsit

http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 24, 2012 - 7:04am
Mike,
Do you have any 1/35 mops? Kidding of course. I still think that an airbrush is the way to go. I think it will come down to technique and what you're trying to accomplish.
Dave

David Waples

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