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PeterTareBuilder

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of PeterTareBuilder  Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 10:05pm
They do have a hobby David; it's taking pokes at each other.

It is fascinating to try and discovr what little things of historical interest are or what they were used for. Many times it's those little things that can shed a lt of light on something else.

Cheers

"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!"

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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 11:07pm

Dave . . .

I hope you're not one of those who believe everything they read :}

Just look at the story of the torpedo and the depth charge, need I say more. I just wonder how many more version there are of that same detailed story told once, then told again. which one is true and how much embellishment. A good story can never be told without at least some embellishment but in the case of Kennedy, a whole lot.

The back issue was a chronic condition well before the 109, well, as the family story goes.

I'm glade you are so into the whole JFK thing, I'm just not. I just can't be convinced he and his short time roll as PT skipper was any better or any more intriguing then any other boat, skipper or crew member, specially the ones that never came home or had any worse then a sore back. Including the untold stories of the PT men who spent the entire war in a POW camp on the Philippines. WIth that in mind the whole JFK story is rather pale in comparison.

Poke, poke, poke,
No offense intended, All the best Dave,
Dick . . .


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  Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 4:16am
All this talk about PT-109 has once again gotten the fur on my back standing up. I can fully understand that some folks ( Dick included) that just do not like Kennedy, and can not stomach the fact that so much attention was given to one PT BOAT during the entire Pacific campaign. I sit back and often wonder how many people during WWII even knew what a PT Boat was, even some 70 years ago. When they did, the press took full advantage of building up this boat to be something like the weapon of the war that was going to win it all. Tale tales of the boats doing 70 knots were thrown around the Newspapers often, and the David and Goliath story was born.

It was at a time when we were getting spanked by the Germans, and the Japanese early in the war. The PT Boats were just what was needed to build faith in our Navy, and show the folks back home that we could win with this type of craft. Tall tales were often thrown around by the PT BOATERS during and after the war. Claims of torpedoes destroying the Japanese Navy were proven false, and it wasn't until the boats became gun boats that they were really doing a monumental job at there. I don't think anyone loves these boats and the men who served on them more than I do, and I can fully understand the dislike by PT Boat men, when it came to Kennedy and PT-109. Over the past 35 years, I have listen to these men, some hating the PT-109 story, and some having no problem with it.

Like it or not you guys, PT-109 did happen, and men were killed on that patrol. Men did swim to the Islands, they did become shipwrecked, and they did suffer during the ordeal. It was brought to light mostly because of Kennedy's Father, who had a pretty good hold on the press in those days. These stories surfaced, not because of JFK, but because of the father, who felt it would be great for Jack when he returned home, and the whole political Kennedy machine. In fact, one has to admire Kennedy for staying in the Pacific, and getting another boat, when by all the Navy rules, he could have been sent home. In having several conversations with crew members of PT-109, I mean they really loved this guy, had nothing but praise for him, although I do think that Mr. Thom should have gotten more applause then he did.

I have talked to many crew members over the years that had the same admiration for their Skippers, so this is something that was not uncommon, if you were good to your men, which Kennedy was. They just happened to be on a boat where their Skipper would become President of the United States, and PT-109 would be thrust into the spot-light many times over the coming years. As a young boy of ten years old, I too was brought face to face with a boat I knew nothing about, by watching PT-109 on TV. The boats, to me at least were bigger than life, and I wanted one so bad, I could taste it. It was because of Kennedy and this famous boat that my whole life changed, and I would dedicate my life to these men and their wooden boats. As a middle aged guy, I am still just as excited to see these boats as I was 46 years ago. PT-109 like it or not was one of the most singe reasons why anyone even knew what a PT Boat was, and it was Kennedy and his crew that did that.

The Kennedy Exhibit I will be doing in January, will mark the first time ever that i have done a full and complete Kennedy exhibit, and I hope that when people see it, they too might walk away with the same feeling I had years ago, and will fully enjoy the PT BOAT section of that exhibit. Trust me guys, I know there is more to the PT BOATS then just PT-109, but it just happens to be a big part of PT BOAT HISTORY.


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 4:53am
Hi Dick,
No, I'm not one who believes everything he reads. But I have to tell you reading through the articles of people who were around JFK you can start to put the pieces together and get a better understanding of what kind of skipper and person he was. There is no doubt that his family had influence but when you read through his records you can see that he didn't roll with the flow but like his brother worked diligently to put himself into a position to be a PT skipper, get in harms way, and after that still tried to remain engaged until health issues forced him out of service. Also intriguing are the many articles and interviews with former crew and people that were with Kennedy during his short time in the Pacific.

I completely understand that the book I just picked up on Amazon was written during the elections and there is potential for a lot of bias. I've never heard of the book until Drew mentioned it. I'll be looking for any first hand accounts that give a glimpse of life on the PT's and this particular boat, which like Frank, caused me to fall in love with these boats so many years ago in front of the big screen.

Yes, this particular boat, PT-109, has my full attention but I've really enjoyed learning more about other boats and crew along the way. Most recently being introduced to Mr. Frank and PT-505. What an amazing story that is.
Dave

David Waples

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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 7:30am
For anyone interested, try a book called THE SEARCH FOR JFK. It is sort of a warts-and-all story of his life.

Also, does anyone know of a book or other detailed account of Murray Prestons's MOH run to rescue the downed pilot in Wasile Bay? I know AT LOSE QUARTERS has an account of the action, but it has always seemed to me to be worthy of a more comprehensive look at the mission and the men who took the risk.


Will

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Dick

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Dick   Send Email To Dick Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 9:57am

Thanks WIll . . . .

Uncle, uncle, uncle . . . . OMG!
Someone needs to get off their sop box - what a load of horse doo doo ! ! ! ! I hope your exhibit goes off well.

Dick . . .

PS: I never ever said I was a Kennedy hater, just the opposite. Its the propagation and the never ending embellishment of the 109 and its skipper (not the man). There are hundreds of boat and thousand of men ignored for the easy propaganda. That's what is so sad. Unlike many, it wasn't the movie of the 109 that brought about my interests and love of PT boats, It was in the 50's with They Were Expendable, and the sporadic mention of PT boat service in movies and books like An American Guerrilla in the Philippines, and even the movie with the beautiful scene of early Elco boats rescuing cruise ship passengers in Crash Dive. I didn't see the 109 movie until later when I was out of school.

Sorry, now I'm getting off my high horse I rode in on!




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  Jerry Gilmartin

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jerry Gilmartin   Send Email To Jerry Gilmartin Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 11:40am
All of this would not be an issue if we all just agree to talk exclusively about the 78 foot Higgins boats...all the time. And whenever there is any type of subject being discussed, immediately make a comparison to a 78 foot Higgins boat and how the two subjects might be related. Then all of these disagreements will be over! Problem solved! Jerry

Jerry Gilmartin

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Hadly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 11:49am
You are cleaver, I must give you that and an easy way to discuss for favorite boats. Amen, Jerry.
SH


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 12:28pm
Jerry, you are an evil influence.....lol

Will

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 28, 2012 - 1:08pm
I decided to come down off my soap box because God forbid should anyone on this board dare to give an opinion or thought that everyone doesn't agree with. This always happens when a discussion begins with PT-109, from a screw hole that went way beyond where it should have, to Dick calling my comments basically a bunch of do do. With this being said, we will now turn the discussion over to the HUCKINS BOAT, where we might find some screw holes to try and identify. I feel like I should take my ball and go home, but I love a good discussion, so bring it on, but please let's change the subject matter.


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