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 Author  Topic: PT-109 Deck Log
Nuge210

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nuge210   Send Email To Nuge210 Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:15am
Frank, there could be a report somewhere and it would be interesting to search for it. There are reports at the Fleet, Base and Ron levels in some cases.

David, not all boats had logs. There aren't any for individual boats in Ron's 15 and 23, or at least I've never been able to find them. Capt Stanley Barnes had his Ron 15 logs done as a squadron war diary.

I'll try to look at the 109 logs, and take some photos, hopefully before Christmas.

If anyone wants to know about logs for a certain boat, let me know. I had taken pics of the Log Index earlier this year.

Steve

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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:24am
Thanks Steve! In addition to the 109 boat which I'm sure almost everyone is interested in seeing, I would also be interested in the 105 boat commanded by Mr. Keresey followed by Mr. Iles. Last PT-505 which was in the English Channel on D-Day.
Dave

David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 22, 2012 - 6:37am
Steve

I know your time is precious, but if you do have time, I have been very interested in deck logs for PT-374, Ron 27. My dear friend Wallace McNeish served on the boat for a number of years, and I would love to have them.


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David Waples

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Waples  Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 8:52pm
Greetings,
This evening I heard back from the Kennedy Library. They do not have the PT-109 log book. Stacey at the library relayed the following...

"According to the Naval History and Heritage Command (NHHC), only deck logs from commissioned Navy ships are permanently retained by the NHHC and the National Archives. Logs from 1941 through those that are 30 years are older are held in the Modern Military Branch of the National Archives at College Park, MD, which you can reach by telephone at 301-837-3510. It might be worth checking in with them about the location of the PT-109 deck log."

It would be terrific if somebody in that part of the world could check this out. And while you're at it PT-105 would be awesome!

Dave

David Waples

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Nov 27, 2012 - 10:22pm
I have written to my friend Chip Marshall in hopes that he would check this out for me the next time he is at the National Archives. He lives right around the corner from them. Dave, I asked that he also check deck logs for PT-105 as well.


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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Nov 29, 2012 - 6:43am
NARA is the keeper of the PT log books.

As many of you have the book "FIRST-UP: Chronicles " about the PT-157, which rescued the 109 crew, you recall I have all the pages from the 157's log book and Daily MTB logs (RON-9) for the July/August time frame around which the book is based. I got many pages from Nathaniel Smith (Ham Smith son, Skipper of the PT-154) who had visited to NARA in Maryland and saw them himself and the rest I got directly from NARA. (Nat Smith once sent me photo of a stack of PT log books housed at NARA)

If you ask NARA to pull log books or MTB Daily Reports and SEND YOU COPIES it does cost money! They charge by the page.

In the PT-157 and PT-154 log books (and a few pages of other log books I've seen) it is quickly apparently they were inherently and apparently purposely low on details (very dry reading) except for time out to patrol and time returned, the amount of gas taken on, the security checks being performed. With rare exception they did not note if they fired torpedoes or guns at enemy targets. If there was notable 'action' they would put a note in their log book referring to the MTB report of the day for details. This was, I believe, for self preservation so that in the event of enemy capture there was not any incriminating information to be used against the 'captured' crewman. The night's 'action' details, if you will, were put into the RON's MTB Daily Logs. (which is why I went through the pains to put them into FIRST-UP book. And half of the FIRST-UP book is the 157's log and RON-9 MTB reports so one can get a feel for how this interplay worked)

To my question to the Skipper of the 157 (William 'Bud' Liebenow as to how the 157's log book could refer to an MTB report that yet to be generated.....

The RON's MTB Daily Deck log was generated after the morning debrief of the Skippers and XOs of the previous night activities. Once that MTB report was created THEN the log books were filled in and completed and the person filling in the PT's log book and could make reference to the MTB reports if they wished.

P.S. the PT's log book were of course suppose to be the Skipper but frequently was done another crew member. For example, Skipper Liebenow admitted that his QM (Waldo DeWilde) filled in a signed the PT-157 daily log.

I agree the 109's log is at the bottom with the wreckage. Why would Kennedy fill out a [new] log book for a boat that no longer exists. There should be, however, some Naval inquiry into the loss of a boat/ship as that is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for the loss of any vessel which is needed for the records. Someone might want to look for that.








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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Nov 29, 2012 - 7:53am
We have the sinking reports Bridge: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-11.htm

What we're looking for is earlier records of incidents like the torpedoed depth charge and other details.



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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Nov 29, 2012 - 9:15am
Jeff - that would be a challenge to find.



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Matthew Waki

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Dec 2, 2012 - 7:08am
Hello, this is my first posting here. Al Ross and Frank Andruss may remember me corresponding with them back in 1999 or 2000 about research I was doing into several famous boats including the 109 for a book I was hoping to publish. I never completed the project (you know, my real job, family, etc.) and recently started up again, including reading the forum here. I thought Id post with hopes that it might help provide more info about the depth charge incident.

As part of my research I obtained copies of all the 109 deck log pages. There are 244 pages dated July 10, 1942 - June 30, 1943. Jack Kempners and Bryant Larsons log entries are very detailed while Leonard Thoms and John Kennedys are the exact opposite. I also obtained copies of all the publications that included first hand recollections and contacted Robert J. Donovan and Cliff Robertson. I attended a PT Boats, Inc. reunion back in 2002. Yeah, I spend too much money. When I originally got the logs in 2000 I went through all 244 pages noting entries that would affect the appearance of the boat at specific times in her history.

Kempner and Larson noted many details including dates the boat was repainted and when the radar was installed. However, there is not an entry for when the depth charges were installed. You can interpret that three ways. Considering the consistently detailed nature of their entries, its possible they werent installed until Kennedy took command and neither he nor Thom logged it. That would be consistent with the style of their entries, or its possible Kempner and Larson just lapsed and didnt log it. Your interpretation (guess) is as good as mine. Its also possible I missed it. Going through 244 pages of log entries is mighty tedious. I plan on going through them again.

According to my research the torpedo hitting the depth charge incident happened on the night of July 2-3, 1943. This is verified by the log of PT 48 (Jack Isles commanding) and later interviews conducted by Joan and Clay Blair with Alvin Cluster who was aboard the 48 when it happened. The 48 also took damage. Since the 109s surviving logs only go to June 30, the incident happened a couple of days after the last entry so it wouldnt show up. This is only one month before the 109s sinking. The 109 was back in service for a patrol with PT 105 and PT 163 on the night of July 19-20 so the repairs were done well enough by then.

Hope to have all my research compiled next year. Ive decided to self-publish it because completing the research into the other famous boats is too time consuming and Ill never get it all out. Al and Frank will probably be hearing from me again. My findings aren't earth shattering but are interesting with some details I believe aren't yet known.

Cheers to you all.

Matt

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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Dec 2, 2012 - 7:56am
Matt

I certainly do remember you, but lost track of your project. I was wondering how you made out with your research and book. Glad to hear that you are back with us, and providing us with some documentation. Good luck this time around. You can contact me anytime, and I will be glad to try and help you..............


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