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Topic: Good news for P.T. Boat modelers |
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Frank J Andruss Sr
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 3:41pm
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Just curious Jeff, if the boat comes out with the wall too high, will you not buy the boat. I agree with you that Italeri should have done their homework, and got it right, but come on, with the few things that might be wrong with the Kit, I would guess that model builders on this site, have plenty of know how to fix those problems and make an excellent model.
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Jerry Beasley
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 4:11pm
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May I add an additional point of view concerning asking modeling companies not only for something new, but working with them to correct problems or inaccuracies. I also work with 1/6 scale figures through another Forum and for 6 months we have been working with 2 different manufacturers (one in Italy and one in China) through the forum that really care what the consumer thinks of their products - not only did they listen when we asked for some new figures but then listened to honest constructive criticism as they worked from design to prototype to final production to setting the price when everyone felt the proposed price a bit prohibitive. My point is that while they are smaller companies, they are interested and they do listen - The last thing they want is to drop a new expensive item on the market and then have every forum start tearing it apart because it isn't right and either requires lots of extra work or extra money for aftermarket parts. Will Italeri listen to the consumer, I don't know. But one thing is certain, if we don't constructive try, they definitely won't change anything. The combine population of this Forum is probably the most knowledgeable group of PT enthusiasts in the world, and if we are willing to provide them not only constructive criticism but assistance in the form of drawings and pictures, there is a better than average chance they might just step up and make some corrections before the final product hits the market.
Dave Waples and I have discussed this with Jeff and he has agreed to be the point man to reach out to Italeri with an offer of support in any format necessary to help them produce a superior boat - They have given us something we want, but while it's pretty good, it's not quite there yet. There is a big poster on the wall at work that proclaims "Good enough, isn't." In this case I have to agree - if we can get them to listen, we help the entire modeling community, if not then we tried and we make the corrections as we proceed with the build.
Jerry Beasley |
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Drew Cook
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 4:25pm
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Jeff,
I sure wouldn't want to dispute you on your eyeballing of the port cockpit bulkhead on this new Italeri 103-class boat model as too high, not after all the excellent research, work, and precise measurements you've done and presented on your great site...
But, do you really think it looks too high? It always has seemed to me the early 103-class PTs DID have rather unusually high and boxy cockpit areas formed by a high port side (in particular) splash shield bulkhead and the aft cockpit armor bulkhead and "wing."
Various photos of the 117, shots of the Ron 5 boats on the Stanton, and even the close-up "JFK-in-the-109-cockpit" photos seem to bear this (very) "high" look out to MY eye.
Don' t wish to be a contrarian, or argumentative, but...?
-- Drew
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Jeff D
Moderator
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 5:41pm
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I don't think I would as is Frank, but I really think it's not a final version. David pointed out how it looks like a conversion of the 596, you can really see it on the bridge starboard wall. See the closeup below. I think they'll do it right for the release. I realize I might be a little picky. But the closer I looked at the image, the more I was hoping they'd fix the little things like the cone shaped horn and the stubby deck vents.
I think an accurate model looks so much better even when you can't quite put your finger on why it does when compared to a similar boat with a lot of minor flaws.
As Jerry said, I sent Italeri a very polite e-mail asking if the boat at the Nuremberg show was the final version. I also pointed out Dick / Al's Elco DVD and Al's factory torpedo tube drawings. I had Dave and Jerry check my e-mail before I sent it to be sure it was nothing but supportive of this new release.
Yah Drew, I really do think it is about 8 inches too high. It should be even with the top of the forward bridge structure and top of the antenna base. Check out these images from Gene's PT King site, http://www.pt-king.gdinc.com/, as compared to the model:
Here's a closer shot of the model:
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PeterTareBuilder
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 6:27pm
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Quote:
I respectfully disagree. One Lindberg kit is enough. At $150+ I think it should be damn close to what the real boat looked like. Especially given the excellent references available today. Again, I'm hoping it is not the finished product. It would be better to wait a little longer to do it right. That port wall way too high is not nit picking. It makes the boat look funny.
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Hi there.
Maybe Italeir posted those images hoping for feedback and notice of any errors like Master Box does when they post images of their In-Progress kits and figure sets on the Master Box website. Master Box welcomes such feedback and acknoleges it to the modeller who sends it. I saw at least two severe errors in two of their kits that i then informed them about. One was their Britsih Infantry North Africa set that the protoptype set had the wrong mark of Lee Enfield rifle for that theater ofoperations at that time. THe other error, on a different set - US Artillery Crew - was not as bad; in fact it was kind of funny. The crew was posed with a 155 mm howitzer. One of the crew is inserting a shell into the breech of the gun. That's great, except the shell had the lifting ring still in place rather than the fuse. Ditto for the other ready rounds in the set.
For the size and the cost of this new PT boat kit I sincerely hope that the images are of a prototype model and that Italeri is seeking and will listen to feedback regarding any errors that are spotted and hopefully correct them before releasing the kit.
I have really been looking forward to this kit and I'm a bit disappointed to read about the rather glaring errors in the bridge area and the spray shield on the port gun tub.
For the price of this kit i expect a model out of the box that has at least an accurate profile.
With the plethora of free images and advice on the 103 Class of PT boat, I just fail to see how these errors crept in unles it was sikply to either get a model built for the show or to save development and tooling costs.
Cheers from Peter
"Give me a faster PT boat for I'd like to get out of harm's way!" |
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Frank J Andruss Sr
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 7:44pm
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I am very happy that some of you have gotten together to form a bridge between our board and Italeri. I am in hopes that they will take into consideration all of your input. I do agree that for the money we will be spending on this model, you want it as accurate as possible, but if this does not happen on the final product, I feel pretty certain that the majority will make the purchase and fix the problems. I still feel that some of the problems we are seeing might not show up in the final product, but if they do, can be fixed without too much fuss.
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David Waples
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 28, 2012 - 9:04pm
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I think we all want to see Italeri put out an accurate product. I suspect they want the same. Jeff has reached out to them so let's see where it takes us.
Dave
David Waples |
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Will Day
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Feb 29, 2012 - 2:02pm
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The scary part will be if this IS Italeri's idea of a perfect model.
Will |
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