PT Boat Forum


Moderated by: Dick, Jeff D

The PT Boat Forum ª PT Boats of WWII ª  PT Boats - General

Next Page | Page: 1 of 2

Back to Topic Index Page 151 | Replies: 18 | Pages: [1] 2

 Author  Topic: ELCO PT's muffler color
TheBridge

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jan 26, 2011 - 7:03am
I had a question from a friend who had seen photos of the PT-157 model. He said he has seen other photos of a PT model or two shown with with silver mufflers and asked if that was accurate in any way. Here are the points I responded to him with and thought to post it here as well.

Bottom line is that silver or tin colored mufflers would be incorrect. Here are three points I put on this point....

First: the boats were purposely painted for camouflage to keep sun/moon from reflecting off the boat in any way. 'anything that shines' was painted what the rule was according to Bud Liebenow (Skipper of the PT-157) had said to me in past conversations when talking about the boat paint.

I happen to speak to Bud Liebenow this afternoon and I mentioned the question of silver colored mufflers. He was surprised at the very thought saying that their lives depended, in part, on not being seen so the thought of something silver, especially considering the size and exposure of the mufflers, was unthinkable.

Secondly, in the period photos I've seen there has never been any silver (or even shiny) mufflers; even after the boats had been at sea for some time.

Third, (I should have posted this point first as it's pretty conclusive...but what the heck), I researched through the ELCO blueprints (from the Dick Washichek collection of ELCO blueprints..using drawing number ELCO_Roll_5535-4_72SCAN_00467.pdf. If you don't have this collection I strongly suggest you obtain a set as well as Jeff Davidson's index to these drawings) and checked the parts of the muffler and the bill of materials also on this drawing. ALL parts (except some nuts and bolts which were stainless steel) were made of copper or bronze.! To be clear this (obviously) includes the muffler's visible surfaces (check parts 15, 16, 17, 19, 27 on the drawing and see that they are listed as being 'copper').

I would assume (yes, my assumptions here) that the use of copper and bronze was likely to fight the effects of erosion due (to direct contact with sea water) and fight off sea growth (such as barnacles and such as they don't like copper) and likely due to copper's thermal characteristics to handle the heat.

Even if the paint did fake off, which it no doubt did to some extent, without paint over them the copper and bronze gets a verdigris patina finish (meaning copper gets to be dull shades of brown or green and bronze is a dull yellow or even with some green)

Comments/corrections/known exceptions to the above are welcomed of course.

Bridge




Total Posts: 302 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm | IP Logged

  TED WALTHER

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 26, 2011 - 8:31am
Bridge;
You are absolutely correct on all points. I have seen the photos of the model your friend spoke of, it is a high dollar museum quaility display model at http://www.allwoodships.com/MilitaryShips/SmallFightingShips/Elco-80.htm
the model is of PT 366. for the price they are asking you would think it would be correct, but it is not. the mufflers need to be painted camo and also the whole model needs a coat or two of dulcoat.
They also sell a 78 Higgins model but the chart house window frames are incorrectly shaped, and all the wood hand railings are missing on the canopy.
Take care,
TED


Total Posts: 2933 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am | IP Logged

TheBridge

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jan 26, 2011 - 8:49am
Ted,

I had to dig back a bit and the one I recalled was this one:
http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/product.asp?content_area=3&sub_area=11&product_area=74&product_id=76

I think was $5,000 least year...now it's $7,500


Total Posts: 302 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm | IP Logged

  TED WALTHER

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 26, 2011 - 10:50am
Well yeah that one too! This one also needs the changes I mentioned, as it looks to have a satin finish, not flat. My opinion, why if you want a large scale model, and you have the room, you can find one of those 1/10th scale modesl Bob Lanthier was selling years ago, for less than half this price, plus it can be made into remote control!
take care,
TED


Total Posts: 2933 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am | IP Logged

Frank J Andruss Sr

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:01pm
That was a Beautiful model that Bob was offering. A real beast. He almost donated one to my Exhibit years ago, but it feel through. I keep kidding Stanley that the day I hit the lottery, I'm going to have him build me one. You are right Ted, whoever is building these models, should at least do the research on the colors before they charge so much money. I think there is one on EBAY right now that is at $2,000.00


Total Posts: 3315 | Joined: Oct 9, 2006 - 6:09am | IP Logged

TED WALTHER

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: Jan 27, 2011 - 3:52pm
Frank and anyone else:
Has anyone heard from Bob Lanthier lately, where he is at, where his molds are, are there any 1/10th kits left, etc.
TED


Total Posts: 2933 | Joined: Oct 16, 2006 - 7:42am | IP Logged

victorkchun

New Member
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 28, 2011 - 8:33am
I met Bob Leathier, a very nice guy and great modeler of ships and
planes, 20 years ago (how time flies) when he was located at Burbank,
California. A year ago I tried to contact him to no avail. Even Alyce of
PT Boat, Inc have no idea where he is. One of his PT model was donated to the PT Boat Museum at Battleship Cove, Fall River, Mass.
I still like to contact him.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered | IP Logged

victorkchun

New Member
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jan 28, 2011 - 8:33am
I met Bob Leathier, a very nice guy and great modeler of ships and
planes, 20 years ago (how time flies) when he was located at Burbank,
California. A year ago I tried to contact him to no avail. Even Alyce of
PT Boat, Inc have no idea where he is. One of his PT model was donated to the PT Boat Museum at Battleship Cove, Fall River, Mass.
I still like to contact him.
Victor

Victor K Chun

Total Posts: | Joined: Unregistered | IP Logged

Will Day

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: Jan 28, 2011 - 2:35pm
Bob used to have a storefront in Burbank, but it never seemed to be open. Haven't been by there in several years, so I don't know if the store still even exists.

Will

Total Posts: 1954 | Joined: Oct 8, 2006 - 4:19pm | IP Logged

TheBridge

TOP BOSS
  

    
Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jan 28, 2011 - 3:20pm
Burbank, CA? I live about 30-minutes away from there. Anybody have the store address or name of the palce?

- Bridge


Total Posts: 302 | Joined: Nov 22, 2009 - 3:04pm | IP Logged

Next Page

Pages: [1] 2


Lock Topic

 

Forum Legend

New Member

Reply to topic

More than 25 posts | Full Member

Reply to topic with quoted message

More than 50 posts | Advanced Member

Edit Message

More than 150 posts | MASTER

View profile

More than 300 posts | TOP BOSS

Email member