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Topic: PT-109 Completed Model |
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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 Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 9:12am
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Hi David,
Great model! I was curious if you were aware of the missing depth charge that occurred before JFK showed up to the PT109. I read in Bryant Larsen's memiors- or possibly in Gene Kirkland's PT King website, in "The Unknown History of PT109" where it says the one of the (Not sure which side?) torpedoes was accidentally fired and it tore off the toe rail section as well as the depth charge on that side. They had not cranked out the torpedo. So if you want to show the 37mm gun on the bow, you really should remove the depth charge and toe rail. I am not criticizing your excellent work, I think you have built a great model. Keep up the great work! I will re-read Larsens memiors and let you know what it says. Jerry PT658 Portland, OR
Jerry Gilmartin |
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Drew Cook
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 5:54pm
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Looks great, Dave!
Regarding the supposed "missing" depth charge, of course it would depend on just what moment in the life of the JFK-skippered 109 your model represents.
My two cents worth is that if your model represents the boat on June 30th, 1943 -- the date of the forward-port-torpedo-smacking-into-the-depth-charge-and-knocking-it-through-the-foredeck incident -- or a few days afterwards, perhaps you'd show the port depth charge missing while repairs were being made.
Any other time after that (or before the incident, of course), in my opinion, the port depth charge would be back in place in its rack on the repaired foredeck.
Nice to see the finished boat -- your extensive efforts show up well.
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David Waples
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 6:04pm
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Hi Jerry,
Great observation. I did a lot of detailing on this boat so I wont go into all the details right now but I will explain what I did to this model that is specific to the 109. I'll tell you right up front that some of this is speculation on my part. So here it goes...
Color - The best evidence I've seen from years of research is what I believe Drew pointed out here and in other forums. The photo of the green 80' Elco tied up next to the gray 77' PT-61. This is the most compelling evidence I've seen and had explained to me. The photos don't really show it but the green is very very close to what is seen in that series of pictures. I absolutely tortured John Snyder over this issue (I'm a loyal customer to WEM because of his help). I'll try and improve the photos later.
Depth Charges - While under Kennedy's command and in high seas the port forward torpedo tube launched accidentally driving the depth charge into the lower decks. The question becomes did they just get rid of it after that or did they repair it? I've seen no evidence to indicate either way so I chose to show it as repaired. You may notice (Ed, a.k.a. Ducati 650 picked up on it) that I removed a fair chunk of the toe rail fore and aft of the depth charge to simulate what it might have looked like after repair.
Mast - There is no mast. Of this I'm quite confident. I don't know where it was removed or why but it doesn't exist. Garth is watching over us and will disagree with me to the bitter end but there is no photographic evidence to indicate that this boat had a mast lying down or otherwise.
Lettering - The 109 marking on the day cabin was carefully placed as in the well known photographs.
Wind screen - This was painted over as were the windows on the forward part of the chart house.
20mm Oerlikon - The night that the 109 was sunk it was documented that the locking pin on the 20mm was broken. They tied it up to the depression railing.
37mm howitzer - The board size was specified in Donovan's book and how it was attached. The book also specifies that it was lashed to the deck and it seems logical that it would have been tied off to the cleats since I don't think the toe rail would have supported it. I stole this idea from another modeler. I don't know who he is but I think it was a good call. Update - I just saw Drew's comments about the date. This represents the boat the night she went out and was sunk. That day is when they added the 37mm and just tacked her down until they could make a more permenant mounting later.
Life raft - There's no indication that the 109 had a life raft. I can't see it in any known pictures and it is documented in Donovan's book that they had a 1/2 man dingy. This was not uncommon. PT-105 had a dingy too. But it's not known if it went out with them the night of the sinking so I didn't add on.
Signal light mast - There's no photographic evidence that there was a signal light mast. There is evidence that the one that attaches to the port side of the cockpit is gone. You can see the empty screw holes where the bracket used to be. The screws are gone which indicate that the mounting was gone.
Cables to impulse chambers - The cables to the impulse chambers were added since they are seen on the boat when it was transported to Panama. Al provided some nice detail on that in a recent post.
Everything else was just added based on what I've seen on other boats of this class. I think she's pretty darn accurate at the end of the day based on what we know about this boat. One of my favorite features that you can see is that I put instrument dials on the dash. They are damn small! I'm really anxious to get this boat cased so that it's protected from Mr. Hand. I hate that guy! :-)
If you have any more questions or comments I would love to hear them.
Dave
David Waples |
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Will Day
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Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 6:38pm
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David: Thanks so much for the very illuminating post on the whys and wherefores of how the boat was depicted at that given point in time. It would seem that you have addressed all reasonable questions as to the 109's look and condition, but we all know that someone out there will come up with an opinion from out in left field. - lol
Will |
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David Waples
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Posted on: Jun 16, 2010 - 7:24pm
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Who would that be Will? At the end of the day every modeler should make their project their own and I respect that. I appreciate that you guys respect my approach and thank you all for your comments and complements.
Dave
David Waples |
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Blake
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Jun 18, 2010 - 11:43am
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Hey David, GREAT JOB! I'm not sure I'll be able to make June's club meeting & I was fearing I wouldn't get to see your kit if you brought her this month. The pics make me feel a little better. I was thinking of building my Revell boat AFTER my italeri boat is finished, but after seeing yours I may just put it up on ebay! Just kidding, if nothing else, you've inspired me to start looking at build possibilities
for the venerable ol' Revell kit.
Really Really Nice Job, thanks for posting.
B- |
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Peter Krogh
Full Member
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Posted on: Jun 18, 2010 - 7:57pm
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David,
I'm no modeler but I have to say that your work outstanding. If I squint my eyes the boat starts to look 'real' with all the detail work.
Wow.
Pete
2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat |
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David Buck
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jun 19, 2010 - 6:01am
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Hi David, One fantastic Model and in 1/72 scale you should rightly feel proud to have finished a Model of the PT 109 to this degree of detail.
I concer with your not including the mast on this Boat if you have R.J.Donovans book you will find a photo of seven Boats at Tulagi four 80' Boats and three 77' boats none it seems have a mast, it would appear that in the early days they were removed to aid the gunners.
The Photo of Kennedy and the PT 109 crew is also in the book and looking at this photo and your photos I wondered about the shape of the numbers you had put on your model?
Just a very small detail but one I thought I might ask about as the rest of your details are mind blowing in this scale.
D.buck |
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David Waples
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Posted on: Jun 19, 2010 - 6:31am
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Thanks Blake, Peter, and David.
Blake, sorry to hear that you might not be able to make the next meeting. If not perhaps I can bring it another time to show you.
David, Why the mast is gone is open to speculation. It could be because of a failed attempt at early radar that the 109 went through before JFK, or the more likely reason as somebody pointed out some time ago was because it was in the way. It was suggested that the boats parked under overhanging trees along the banks and the masts got caught up in the trees. I forget who mentioned that but it made a lot of sense to me. As for the numbers, they were the closest thing I could find to the prototype out there. I don't have the capability of printing my own decals in white (ALPS printer at least required) and the expense of having somebody do it was just too much.
Dave
David Waples |
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FRANK |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Jun 20, 2010 - 12:08pm
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Hello David-
Congradulations on your most beautiful PT-109 model. She looks fantastic! Very nice attention to detail as well. WELL DONE!!!
Frank Ryczek, Jr.
Modeler/Friend RON-10 PT-169 " ZEBRA SNAFU " Base Tulagi
HIGH TIDES ALWAYS!
YOUR FRIEND THROUGH SCALE SHIP MODELING AND PT BOAT HISTORY! |
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