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 Author  Topic: PT's two binnacle locations
TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jun 7, 2010 - 9:11am
Question for the vets....There are two binnacle locations of the ELCO PTs. One of the helm just above the wheel and the other on the front of the chart-house roof. Did you use two binnacles simultaneously of just have one a place in which ever location (on the helm or on the chart-house)?

Second question (and I apologize if it is a dumb question) how would you read the compass on the chart-house binnacle give the distance from it to the cockpit? It does seem the chart-house location is not very convenient so if you can explain how much value that one had in daily use I would be interested to hear about that.

P.S. were the binnacles painted the boat (except for the glass face plate of course)? If not, what color were they?

Bridge


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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jun 8, 2010 - 11:16am
The 167 only had the wheel location binnacle. I never saw one (that I remember) anywhere else. It would seem to be useless to have one so far forward that it couldnt be rear, especially at night,


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 3:44am
Bob, if the chart house roof compass was for use in the chart room and the hatch light was painted over, is it likely the binnacle would be removed as unneeded and one less obstacle to trip over?



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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 5:03am
That would certainly be sensible. However base work was always scarce and tasks were scheduled with priority going to the jobs that hindeded effective patrols. If the skipper requested the removal of the useless binnacle, I doubt that it would ever been done. That's only my opinion, I really don't remember any second binnacle on any boat.


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 6:06am
As always thank you Bob. Would even a small job like that most likely have been done at a base? That stands to reason, wouldn't want a leaky chart room roof... and I've gathered that modifications weren't usually done by the crew contrary to popular opinion.



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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 7:01am
That kind of modification would not have been done by the crew, we had few tools and did a lot of work under supervision of the base staff, but nothing like this, I think. There were no standard procedures. At new forward bases, the crews had to do mostly everything, even help build base facilities. But as the base became established, base crews took over. Besides, a task like this would not likely be considered important by the crew.


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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 9:21am
As noted previously the deadlight in the charthouse roof is painted over.

The binnacle at the helm makes complete sense (of course). The binnacle on the chart house roof (seen in place in many photos) is curious. If I understand that binnacle, looking at the drawing [ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00269.pdf], you have to look down into the binnacle to see the (horizontal) compass rose so wouldn't be impossible to look out of the charthouse deadlight even if unpainted. If you're standing on the deck you have to lean over the front of the chart house and twist you neck to see the compass...and in rough seas there is really nothing to steady you at the location either.

BTW - the list of materials on the drawing does say that there a two (2) binnacles per boat. That says that they were provisioned to put one in the helm and one on the charthouse simultaneously.

I sent a note off to Bud Liebenow asking why the binnacle on the charthouse. There is a great photo of his 157 underway and you can clearly see the binnacle on the chart house so I hope he can recall for us its practical use at that location. Any other Vet who can also say how the charthouse binnacle was used is more then welcome to say so! I can't figure it was there as a hood ornament.

Bridge




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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 9:47am
Good point although the Pioneer compass in the binnacle was an aircraft type designed to be read from the side. Here's from http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/PT-Manual/MTBM-3.html#C3:

SECTION B. THE PIONEER AIRPLANE COMPASS

This is a small, compact, liquid compass secured to the top of forward bulkhead in the cockpit directly over the wheel where best seen by the helmsman. The dials are slightly luminous so as to be seen clearly for night steering. The liquid in the compass is composed of highly refined kerosene oil. The lubber's line in this type of compass is on a small glass plate directly facing the helmsman, and is vertical rather than horizontal, Unlike other compasses it indicates the swing of the stern, rather than the bow.


I'm not sure how far below horizontal it was visible though. Here's an image and drawing of a similar compass:





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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jun 9, 2010 - 11:06am
Jeff - Good reference there! That would have made this useful to someone peering out of the Chart house. In cases where the dead light was painted over I could see where some small amount of paint could have been scratched out to allow someone in the chart house (the radioman for example) to get a glimpse of this binnacle. But I am on only SPECULATING here awaiting further input from those that were there!!


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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: Jun 11, 2010 - 4:11pm
Does any recall a color photo of (or vets recall) if the binnacle's housing was painted same as the boat color or were they bare metal (if metal was it aluminum?]

Bridge


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