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 Author  Topic: Ron 9 on the Whie Plains
Nathaniel Smith

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nathaniel Smith   Send Email To Nathaniel Smith Posted on: May 20, 2010 - 5:52pm
It has been mentioned on this blog that Ron 9 boats left NYC with a 20mm gun in the starboard turret. This is a blow-up of the famous "Ron 9 Aboard the White Plains" photo showing PT-154. Both turret guns are covered by canvas ... but does it look like a 20mm gun in the forward turret? There are many on this blog with a finer eye for detail than I.


natsmith

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alross2

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of alross2   Send Email To alross2 Posted on: May 20, 2010 - 7:39pm
Not to me. Here are the two turrets; the shape and size of the cover on the gun barrels are the same.



Al Ross


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Frank J Andruss Sr

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Frank J Andruss Sr   Send Email To Frank J Andruss Sr Posted on: May 20, 2010 - 11:15pm
Those are without a doubt, TWIN 50 CALIBER COVERS and not the 20MM Cannon................


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Will Day

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Will Day   Send Email To Will Day Posted on: May 21, 2010 - 4:49am
Agreed.

Will

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 21, 2010 - 5:23am
I'm not sure if it's any help but Dick's ELCO drawings show PT 187-196 had the ammunition stowage locker on the starboard side of the chart room trunk (between the turret and starboard wing) converted from 50 cal. stowage to 20mm drums. Boats 314-367 went back to .50 cal. stowage.

.50 cal.:
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00175.pdf & 00174 (103-186)
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00182.pdf & 00181 (314-367)

20mm:
ELCO_Roll_5535-2_72SCAN_00186.pdf & 00185 (187-196)



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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: May 23, 2010 - 10:12am
This would have to be a 20mm.

The 20mm, to my knowledge was a 'factory option'. The limit rails, interior turret, top ring mount and gun top were totally different for the 20mm configuration versus the 50-cal. Not a change that would be done if the field (Not saying it would be impossible but highly unlikely!)

The 20mm limit rails had a 'bulge' in the vertical pipe support to accommodate the the rotation of the larger (than the 50-cal) gun post. In the photo below I show the comparison of the 50-cal vs. 20mm vertical pipe supports. Then at the lower left is the PT-154 where you see it has the 20mm vertical configuration. The upper limit rails are slightly different but I not highlighting that here.

Secondly, Captain Liebenow's comment a few weeks ago that all of Kelly's RON-9 boats had 20mm in the forward turret has to have some credibility. I have yet to see a RON-9 (plank boat) PT without the 20mm as Liebenow stated.

Third, Jeff's comments as to the 20mm configuration for a range of PTs, including RON-9 boats, are supportive.

Fourth, the photo of the 154 on deck of the White Plains is weak evidence to anything to the contrary above. If you have ever worked with heavy canvass materials, as I have, they tend to take on the shape of the outline of their seams. If indeed is you want to observe I do see a line running between the two peaks...if this the 20mm barrel? What this may say is that either there was not special version of the canvass cover for the 20mm or they had none at the moment these PT were shipped out (it was war time after all).

Bridge





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CJ Willis

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of CJ Willis  Posted on: May 23, 2010 - 3:27pm
Being a 50 cal. turret gunner I am curious about the 20 mm turrets. Where did they keep the extra 20mm ammunition cans? Did they have a man as a loader? We had a loader for our deck mounted 20mm. We kept our extra 50 cal ammunition in cans in the turret but 20 mm cans are much bigger and heavier. I would think they would be hard to manage in the turret. Just wondering!!

C. J. Willis

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Peter Krogh

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Peter Krogh   Send Email To Peter Krogh Posted on: May 23, 2010 - 3:42pm
Bridge,

That cut of the 156 boat......is it a portion of a larger photo? If so could you please
post, or email to me, the whole photo?

Thanks,
Pete


2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

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Nathaniel Smith

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nathaniel Smith   Send Email To Nathaniel Smith Posted on: May 23, 2010 - 5:28pm
This is PT-153 aboard the White Plains. Is there anything here that adds to this discussion?

Nat

natsmith

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TheBridge

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TheBridge  Posted on: May 23, 2010 - 5:59pm
Nat- nothing jumps right out at me except what a snow storm!.
It does show nicely the liter door in the lower section for the forward turret (used to clean it out debris & shells and remove a wounded gunner) and that the forward window in the day cabin is flush with the side of the cabin while the other two are recessed and have a brim across the top. (sorry, it's the model maker in me constantly checking for such details).

Bridge


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