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Topic: Al Ross & group - Follow up on Atlantic PT Boat colors |
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Jerry Beasley |
Advanced Member
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 8:45am
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Ted jumped me there while I was working on the photograph - it is indeed PT62 (Ted do I get partial credit for an assist)? Ted either has better eyes or a better photo to start with, or maybe both.
Jerry Beasley |
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TED WALTHER
TOP BOSS
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 Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 10:18am
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Jerry;
1/2 credit is yours!
These photos have been out for awhile, PTHQ does have some more of other boats, but as we all know color photos are very rare.
Take care,
TED
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alross2
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 1:29pm
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The guy with the ammo is on an 80' ELCO. If you look on the far right of the photo, you will see the very aft end of the day cabin. The flat surface with the grab rail on top is the Stewart Warner heater. Also, note the deadlight just beneath his foot. The 77' boats did not have deadlights in this location but the ELCO drawings for the 80' boat show one here, just opposite the heater.
Despite the stenciling on the 20mm magazine, this is not PT62; rather, it is an 80' ELCO. The identifying characteristics are the shape of the depression rail, the position of the two 20mm ready service lockers, and the shape of the cleat near the 20mm pedestal. On a 77' ELCO, the depression rail was symmetrical because of the side by side turrets; the trunk cabin went all the way to the aft end of the engineroom hatch and was nearly as wide as the space between the cowl vents, so there would not be any space for the ready service lockers as shown in the photo; and, the 77' ELCO had a bollard in the same general location as the cleat on the 80' boat, but it was shaped like two thin teardrops attached to a ball on a pedestal. That on the 80 looked like a pipe with gull-wings coming out of its sides at the top.
I can post graphics to illustrate if you guys want.
Al
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Will Day
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 2:37pm
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THANKS, AL!
Will |
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TGConnelly
New Member
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 3:59pm
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Well,
If it is an 80 footer, then, if you go by the fact that since it is from the same time from when the color shots were taken, then it could be the 140 or the 314.
My EDUCATED guess is that it's the 314.
Garth
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TED WALTHER
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 4:28pm
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Al;
I really knew that. This is probably a RON 5 80' footer, maybe 107 like the rest of the color photos. 77' ELCO's did not have the rounded depression rails and did not have double 20 mm ready service lockers. The PT 62 20mm magazine was borrowed just for the op.
Garth;
The 77' ELCO in the bottom three color photos on your website really is PT 62
as she was the only 77' ELCO with flat side .50 cal depression shields around the turrrets, if you want I can supply a B/W photo to support this.
I am a supportive friend to both of you, for the sake of this board move on or carry it elsewhere. Do I make my point?
All the best to both of you.
Take care,
TED
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David Waples |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 6:50pm
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Al,
Thanks for clarifying the details of the pictures. There's probably no way to tie the color in the pictures to the boats assigned to Europe. And reviewing boat assignments no boat this old would have been in Europe. Looking at that one and others in the web link there is a heavy blue undertone to all of them. Just wondering if I had stumbled on to something but I'm thinnking not.
With respect to the first picture is it safe to assume that this boat was not in the Pacific if it were sporting the heater? I thought these were removed before sent to the pacific. I'm also curious about the white markings on the depth charges. Do you have any idea what that's about? Is it for training purposes?
Thanks
Dave
David Waples |
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Jerry Gilmartin |
TOP BOSS
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 6:56pm
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Hi David,
I read this before in Motor Torpedo Boats Tactical Orders and Doctrine.
I copied it from the HNSA website. This section is about the depth charges. Jerry
4303. Condition of readiness.-During peacetime, depth charges if carried on board, will have pistol and booster mechanisms removed and placed in designated stowage. During wartime depth charges will be kept either in the "normal" condition or the "ready" condition. (See Armament Conditions of Readiness.)
Large white marks extending from the depth setting graduations on the pistol and to the outer periphery of each charge should be painted with corresponding large white numbers denoting depth settings. This will facilitate setting depths at night.
4304. Depth settings.-Normally the four forward charges should be kept set on 50 feet and the after four on 100 feet-depth of water permitting. This provides the best settings for the most likely encounter with enemy submarines, that of sighting his periscope close aboard or catching him on the surface at night. Under other conditions depth settings should be staggered among the charges on board. Charges should be dropped in rotation from each side working from forward aft. This will provide a pattern and tend to keep the boat on an even keel.
Here is another photo of a 77 foot Elco in the Solomons (Courtesy of Wayne Traxel) that shows the same markings on the DC in the background. Jerry
Jerry Gilmartin |
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David Waples
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 7:38pm
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Excellent Jerry,
Thanks for the insight on the DC markings. I've looked at that picture before but had forgotten about it. I'm still perplexed about the heater on the boat.
Thanks again!
Dave
David Waples |
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alross2
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Posted on: Mar 2, 2010 - 7:58pm
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Quote:
With respect to the first picture is it safe to assume that this boat was not in the Pacific if it were sporting the heater?
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In my mind, assumptions are never safe... :-} For instance, in the oft published photo of the RON 9 boats being shipped to Panama, the closest boat has its heater still fitted. Was the heater removed during transit, in Panama, not at all, ...??
Al
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