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 Author  Topic: American PT Boats in WW II Volume II
David Buck

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 4:21am
QM to answer that question you need a few bits of info first,

1. How far from the shore was the PT 154.

2. What type of 3in (75mm) gun was used e.g. A.A. Howitzer, Navel
Gun.

3. What sort of projectile was chosen or avaiable.

To give you an idea the American M2A2 105 Howitzer gives about
1,500 yards of almost flat trajectory firing a 33lbs high explosive
projectile. Any further and the gun would need to be elevated to
obtain the range, once we know the elevation we can calculate a
trajectory.
Thats why we need the answers to the questions.




D.buck

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Nathaniel Smith

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nathaniel Smith   Send Email To Nathaniel Smith Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 3:07pm
The two PT's were about a mile and a half from shore. I do not know how far down range they were. My father said the first shell went too far and splashed off of his starboard bow.

My guess is that the shore gun was not a howitzer type. Three guns were installed at this location to get PT's coming from Treasury Island. I am told they are still there.


Nat

natsmith

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CJ Willis

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of CJ Willis  Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 3:08pm
Frank: I can give you an eye witness account of the torpedo that was hit on the 242. It occurred on the night of December 27, 1943 off the coast of Bougainville. It was the port rear torpedo. I helped put out the smouldering fire with a bucket with a rope to dip water from over the side. I got the bucket out of the lazerette. We fired the air charge to get the torpedo out of the tube but it was wedged in and didn't budge. It was a Mark 8. (We got new Mark 13 to replace) We and the 254 (a Ron 20 boat) encountered 4 barges that night. We sank three of them but one got away to the beach and it was to shallow to go in after him.

C. J. Willis

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victorkchun

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 4:25pm
Nataneil,
I notices Pat's last name spell Roger and Rogers. Which one is right?
Victor

Victor K Chun

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Nathaniel Smith

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nathaniel Smith   Send Email To Nathaniel Smith Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 4:42pm
Pat frequents this Board. I am sure he will jump in when he has time.

This is a post from Apr 15, 2008 - 6:00pm

This is Pat Rogers, Radioman on PT154 from Dec 1942 until June 1944. I was present when PT154 was hit by a mortar shell on Nov. 13th, 1943 off the coast
of Bougvainville in the Solomon Islands group. (I don't know where you get the Shortland Island.) I am 85 years old and I believe my memory is very good. I can recall your father and the crew like it was only yesterday. I would like you to know that I served in the Navy until Sept. 1949, long after I left PT Boats back in Feb 1946. I was going to be a 20 year or 30 year retiree until i got married in 1947 but my wife to be made it a condition of our marriage - get out of the Navy. I am glad that I did as when went ahead and had 6 children, all grown up and on their own. How about telling me a little about Ham?
(I can say that now that I am out of the service.)

Here is a picture of Pat from an earlier posting (he is in the middle).


Nat

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QM

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: Mar 3, 2010 - 5:35pm
My post regarding the trajectory of the projectile was in reference to the possibility of it being deflected downward on impact with the torpedo.. Such deflection could have been possible but my guess was that the projectile may have already been on an unknown downward angle. I was guessing that it was fired from a howitzer which was probably the most common shore battery in New Guinea Pat Rogers' post which is repeated above refers to a mortar shell. It would have a steeper trajectory than a howitzer. There are too many unknowns to try to calculate a trajectory. With all of the numbers, I still would not be capable of making the calculation.

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David Buck

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of David Buck   Send Email To David Buck Posted on: Mar 4, 2010 - 3:17am
Hi QM, Thanks to Nat we have a range ie; 3,000 yds after a little research the most likely 3in. shore battery Gun would have been the Type 41 (1914 Patten) 76.2 Navel Gun. Copyed from the British weapon supplied to the Japanese during WW1. There are a large number still sitting on their mounts all through The Solomonds, and up through PNG.
It would be interesting to see if someone could confirm this.

A little info on the Gun will help us get a very rough trajectory.

Max Range = 11,000 Yds.at 40 Deg.

Muzzle Velocity =2,210 Fps with standard 12.5 lb HE Shell.

So without taking into account the arc effect or the curvature of the earth or velocity drop off, to make it easy to calclulate the elavation would have been around 11 Deg laid onto the gun with the top of the arc at roughly 300 ft. above sea leavel with a corresponding 11 Deg. angle heading down to the Boat give or take a little.

The Muzzle Velocity gives us a time of flight of around 4 seconds, so if the same Gun fired three rounds and a good crew can load and fire 15 rounds a minute the boat was very lucky indeed.

The pictures of the guns in the Solomons show that they were fitted with very high angle mounts this would be so that the Gun could also fill the A.A. roll as well as be a Shore Battery with a fair range ,the afore mentioned M2A2 only has a range of 7 Kilometers.

I hope this helps a little as without the Guns Trajectory tables this is the best I can do.

To others on this forum this may seem to be a little cold blooded to be working on a subject that took the lives of three brave men but I hope in a small way that this discourse continues to keep their memory alive.

D.buck

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Peter Krogh

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Peter Krogh   Send Email To Peter Krogh Posted on: Mar 4, 2010 - 4:36pm
If it seems cold blooded David then, well .......

But for me this thread really hits home on the perils these guys faced. My Dad never spoke about his time on the 156 boat, nothing more than a few 'specifications' anyway. It wasn't until my brothers and I were in our late teens that we started to realize just how much the war had changed our Dad. The war wasn't something he wanted to remember. No way.

Unfortunately for us boys there is almost nothing in the literature or records on the 156 boat while Dad was on her. The closest we will ever get to knowing what he went through is by reading what little we can find.

Even though I and my middle brother were in the Navy in the mid '60s we never came up against anything that could possibly compare with wartime experiences like has been described in this thread.

This Board, and PT Boats, Inc., has been of inestimable value to us in our search for understanding.

Thanks to all of you.

Pete


2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

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Nathaniel Smith

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nathaniel Smith   Send Email To Nathaniel Smith Posted on: Mar 4, 2010 - 6:18pm
Peter,

As I read your post, I felt chills as my brother and I have had the same experience with my father who was on the 154. We felt that being on PT boats would be adventurous and exciting ... especially with JFK connection and all. My dad never would tell us much. We were in our twenties when we began to sense that the war had changed him. My quest too is to get some understanding of what he might have gone through ... even though, with no combat experience I know I never can.

Communicating with the real PT vets on this Board has been a special experience ... I am thinking about what Earl has been recently trying to say in his thread called "Respect". Earl once told me that he might have served a meal to my Dad and the connection to this mysterious part of my Dad's life was brought to life.

It is only now with my researched understanding of what really happened over there that my dad is comfortable about talking to me about 1943. It is as if my knowledge of things PT puts me into that inner circle with whom a father ... a combat vet ... can safely share. Sure we talk about when he got the roll-off torpedoes and when they mounted a 37mm gun on the bow but we also can talk about what it was like to be strafed by our own airplanes and having to shoot one down that made repeated attacks even though he had IFF and had done proper recognition maneuvers and how that image keeps popping into his thoughts for 67 years. My dad is 90. His memory is not very good now ... I am amazed at Pat Rogers' crystal clear memory (I wish mine was as good and he is 27 years my senior).

I, too, appreciate this Board. I just wish I had not waited so long to start this journey.

Nat

natsmith

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Peter Krogh

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Peter Krogh   Send Email To Peter Krogh Posted on: Mar 4, 2010 - 9:29pm
"I just wish I had not waited so long to start this journey."

Yup. I wish I still had Dad around to talk to......

Pete



2nd generation PT'er
Son of Arthur C. Krogh,
CMoMM, Plankowner Ron 9, 156 Boat

Total Posts: 30 | Joined: Sep 3, 2009 - 6:12pm | IP Logged

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