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Topic: Mk XIII Torpedo Colors & Questions |
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TGConnelly
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Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 9:00am
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Jerry,
Yes, it's gray.
But, what you've got to remember is that the photo was taken at an air station, not a PT base. I believe that naval aviation had different criteria for the color of warheads.
Also, and this is something which I'll admit that I am not 100% confident about, but did any of the boats assigned to the Aleutians have roll-off racks?
Garth
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Hi CJ!
So I would like to defer to CJ's memory if there is anything I said that seems to not agree with that. I looked on a website called Historylink101.com which has a picture evidently taken up at a Naval Air Station in Alaska. It is a COLOR Photograph of a Mark 13 torpedo. In the photo, you can clearly see the GREY warhead and the bare metal afterbody, (it sort of appears to be yellowish metal) which would subsequently be smeared with cosmoline juice once it was placed on the PT boat. I hope this helps, I have been looking for a color picture of the torpedos for a long time myself.
Jerry PT658 Portland, OR
Jerry Gilmartin
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TED WALTHER
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 Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 9:34am
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Garth;
Not that I have seen, I believe the boats were modified after they left and went back to Seattle. However, I do have a photo of PT 223 RON 16 which is discribed as being in taken in the Aluetians, But I don't know.
The photo I have of PT 219 at Kodiak was taken prior to her loss on Sept 14,1943, and she has tubes.
Take care,
TED
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TGConnelly
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Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 12:11pm
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So, yeah, ...
I'm guessing that the warheads of the torpedoes on the boats in the Aleutians would be what? Some sort of red or that bronze color that gentleman alluded to earlier?
Garth
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BobPic
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Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 12:56pm
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I'll take a shot at these questions, remember it has been a long time ago:
The bodies and warheads were different colors because they were made by separate manufacturers and were for general purpose. Some went to aircraft, some to us and we heard that some subs carried a few for close-in attacks. Also not all warheads were the same ( different composition for different purposes.) They were fitted to the body when being sent to the PT's. Color was unimportant and many crews repainted them to suit their fancy. The bodies were mostly black or dark green, but there was a lot of "personalizing" done. They had to be very dark so as to not be visible in moonlight. Gloss was seldom used due to reflections. Factory supplied torpedoes were usually bare steel covered with protective "varnish". Newly installed torpedoes were usually repainted (especially when another boat said they were visible). When torpedoes were carried in tubes, they couldn't be seen and could have been any color even white. But when they were mounted in the open, crew worried about gloss and glare. I think warheads we used came from the states in gray color. That was OK so not all were repainted. The later bodies were bare metal with the coating of "varnish". Probably just a cost concern. I believe the bodies were mostly sheet steel but contained a lot of cast assemblies. The yellow tint was the color of the "Varnish" they used.
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QM
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Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 5:38pm
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| In New Guinea the warheads were usually painted green to match the jungle camo. Most were one color. We used paint brushes so the risk of clogging the impeller with paint did not exist. Regarding the boats in Alaska, I do not know the color used on the boats. It surely was not green. Did a gray warhead match the paint on the boat? Cosmoline or a similar protective material was used on the afterbody. This covered the shiny metal and gave it a brown appearance. |
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David Waples
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Posted on: Oct 22, 2009 - 7:36pm
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That's great information gentlemen. I remember reading somewhere that boats had warheads with different colors. Your explanations help us understand why.
Thanks!
Dave
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Jerry Gilmartin |
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Posted on: Oct 25, 2009 - 9:39am
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Thanks Bobpic and QM, it is nice to get the opinions and memories from the men who were there!
Garth, to answer your question I dont think they had Roll Off Racks installed on any of the RON13 or RON16 boats until they returned to Seattle from Alaska.
I am not so willing to believe that just because the photo was not taken at a PT Boat Base the color scheme was not similar to what was out there. The warheads appear to have been painted grey at the factory, and just because this particular photo was taken at a Naval Air Station does not change the overwhelming likelihood that most certainly the warheads were grey when delivered to whoever was going to use them. If the PT Boat crews wanted to paint them I am sure that was done, but the original color would most likely have been grey.
I think Bobpic and QM and CJ answered the questions.
By the way, this question reminds me of the INFAMOUS "What color was PT109?" discussion that we had on this forum a couple of months back. I think the answer was the same, you can pick a color scheme and certainly there was at least one PT boat that may have done it that way. It was up to the boat Captain. So green, grey, bronze or white or yellow warheads, bare steel or blackened or yellow or cosmoline afterbodies, painted or unpainted, it seems that some of each was done depending on who you were and where you were stationed. I personally think the way Ed (Ducati) did his model torpedoes looks great, with different colored warheads and appearances. I am sticking to grey warheads on my own Italieri PT596 model. I like to believe the 2 color recordings--both the photo and the Movie that Frank Andruss sells (Pt Boats at War Parts 1 and 2) which show the grey primer painted warheads being loaded onto an 80 foot Elco boat in the Pacific. As a result, I painted my warheads 2 different shades of grey. But certainly as QM said, on his boat, they painted their warheads green with brushes, and also same for the entire Squadron of boats. So a little bit of both sounds like the way it must have been! Jerry
Here is a picture of my model PT596. I dedicated the model to her former XO and one of our crewmen on PT658 Bob Hostetter.
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alross2
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Posted on: Oct 25, 2009 - 1:27pm
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Quote:
So, yeah, ...
I'm guessing that the warheads of the torpedoes on the boats in the Aleutians would be what? Some sort of red or that bronze color that gentleman alluded to earlier?
Garth
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Red is unlikely, as it is highly visible at sea. From the specs book for PT 565-624, p.14: "No red paint shall appear topsides."
Al Ross
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PT Modeler
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Posted on: Oct 9, 2014 - 4:44pm
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Garth
Actually, the Bureau of Ordnance dictated the colors of ordnance, not the Branch/Arm using the ordnance. This was to maintain commonality, avoid confusion and prevent accidents. Further, munitions were generally painted at the plant prior to delivery. This would prevent a live warhead being mistaken for a practice warhead and vice versa. According to a Great Uncle who was a WW2 Sub Captain,Torpedo warheads were interchanged between the PT Boats, Submarines, and Naval Aviation.
Jim
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PT Modeler
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Posted on: Oct 9, 2014 - 4:53pm
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Garth
OOPs, I forgot to mention that AFTER the Munitions were delivered to the end user, variations in colors did occur as many boats repainted the torpedoes. But my point was and is, that aside from certain tactical needs - such as boat crews repainting the exposed torpedoes so they wouldn't stand out, the location of a warhead was irrelevant to its color.
Jim
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