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 Author  Topic: Frank Ryczek's Ron 10 Photos
G R Powell

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 6:26am
Frank asked me to post his photos, and I have placed 32 photos in my Photobucket album. I have posted a few of my favorites here. Thanks, Frank, for sharing them with us. I will leave it to you to describe what they depict.

















You can find the other 24 photos in my Photobucket album.


G R Powell

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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 6:50am
Thank you G R, and Frank. The captured Japanese sure look dejected, weren't they told that if captured they would be tortured or worse?



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victorkchun

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 24, 2009 - 10:34am
Can you give me more information about the PT boat underway and
the man at the helm.
Thanks!
Victor

Victor K Chun

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Alex Johnson

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Alex Johnson  Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 5:44am
Thanks for posting these pictures, Jerry. The modeler in me noticed the chalk markings on the wingbridge and charthouse in the first two photographs. It appears that these shots were snapped right before the new camouflage pattern was to be applied. If you look closely you can make out the word BLACK right next the the number 169 and the words DARK GREEN to the right of that chalked onto the boat. There is also a chalk line marking the where the two colors met. Yup, that's the way the PT Navy worked - so much for exact compliance with BuShips camouflage specifications!

ALEX


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TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 6:24am
Dark Green? Not Navy Green or Tropical Green? Or Green 2 or Green 3?

Gee, isn't that a little generic? Or, talking down to people?

And, I was torn a new one by many an experten out there for using generic terms and not the 'proper namenclature' for the paints and being accused of talking down to people because I used terms like dark green and light gray?

And - here - is PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE that crews did use terms like dark green! That they did go to Base Stores and say, "Yeah, hey listen, we need a can of Navy Green and can of Green 2."

My father has ALWAYS told me that they mixed paints to get a color, and they didn't have the specified color .... they guessed at it. As this crew did.




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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 7:03am
It looks like dark green was an actual name Garth, according to Alan Raven's research found here:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/5_9.htm

He describes it as:
Dark Green, 1943
Formula 759
Exact color and tone unknown. It may be the color "Green IA" (1942 series), or it could be the Dark Green of 5/84 - 4/5TMA. It should be noted that "Green 1A" and "5/84 - 4/5TMA" are quite different in hue.


But I do believe your fathers statement that "stock" colors weren't always in stock.

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TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 7:55am
No Jeff,

What I was referring to was that, I always get questions from modelers via email and on other sites and rather than sounding like a stuffy professor - I would try and use color names that I was sure everyone would know - just in case someone would not know what the actual name of the paint was - like charcoal gray for a gray ... Or, dark green or OD green for Navy Green (because I've been told those two are all but the same) ...

I was just trying to be nice and helpful ... and I got ripped into by a certain expert that said since I was a published author and people looked to me as an expert that I should use the proper names and that my using generic terms was 'talking down to them' and that I was actually saying/implying that I thought they would not know anything - so I stopped using the generic terms and started to use the proper names.

I always am told that I should - more often than not - discount a vet's memory. But do you know what I've found guys? They are usually right. Ya know why I say that? About ten years ago, I helped a modeler who was building a Ron 29 boat for a crewman on that boat and the guy asked the crewman what color the boat was and the modeler told me that the crewman REPEATEDALLY said that it was robin's egg blue and he never deviated from that color. And, the modeler took the man to a Home Depot and showed him color charts and each time over a number of months - the man pointed to the robin's egg blue ...

And, do you know what? When I had my own PT-556 model done for me? I had the builder use WEM's Thayer Blue and Deck Blue, the Thayer Blue DOES look like robin's egg blue and the Deck Blue is so close to dark gray that it MIGHT be confused for dark gray.

And, I asked my father what color was his SC-699 - I specifically used the proper names for the grays that it COULD HAVE been ... and do you know what he has said EVERY TIME?

"What we would do is go to Base Stores and get X number of cans of white and X number of cans of black and mixed them until we got the color we needed - if we needed it to be lighter, we'd add some white and if we needed it darker? We'd add some black."

And a PT vet (Ron 22) told me that they'd use whatever paint they'd issued. And, do you know what that same vet told me once? He told me that the green you sometimes see on mailboxes on streets is the same green that crews were sometimes issued, and guess what it is? OD GREEN!

So, am I wrong for using generic terms?


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Jeff D

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Jeff D   Send Email To Jeff D Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 9:08am
I'm no expert but if you're just describing a color in a general discussion, using the "proper" name would be misleading in some cases. Like saying "the color was Black #82". The actual color is a medium gray, not black at all, and lighter than 1941 Dark Gray 5-D. If I was in a technical discussion or telling someone which WEM paint to buy I'd use the technical name and I'm sure you would too.

There's all sorts of people out there and some have the diplomacy of an ogre. Don't sweat it brother, consider the source. It sounds like the expert could have said "you should include the proper name with the description", not reamed you...

Next time just point them to my Ships-2 color page, John Snyder of Snyder And Short Enterprises told me the colors were close:
http://www.pt103.com/Ships_2_Colors.html



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TGConnelly

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 9:21am
Yes sir, I've done that for the past few years now ... ever since I've had a new one reamed .........

But, you said what I've been saying .............


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BobPic

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 26, 2009 - 9:40am
I am reading with interest, the comments about paint colors. I don't disagree with anyone, but you probably are aware of this. We didn't go to the store and buy a can of paint with a nice label and color swatch. Most of the cans had no label, sometines stenciled with a Navy number but often with no marking. Ship storekeeper new the paint names, sort of. If you wanted gray, he handed you a can with no markings which he said was gray. You had no choice because that's all he had usually. Large quantities were usually poured from a 5 gallon bucket and the color was suspect. But it really didn't cause any problem, because you know nobody gave a damn.


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