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 Author  Topic: PT and Alamo scouts
  Gustavo Martinez

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 2:32am
Hi Guys

Im thinking about a diorama with PT and Alamo Scouts.
I cant pictures of Alamo scouts climbing from the PT to the raft , I suposed they used this to go to the coast for clandestine operations , and they used a net , but I didnt find any pic about this.
Could somebody help me ?
Thanks !



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  Gustavo Martinez

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 2:55am
Sorry I realised , If this operations were clandestine at night , there are no picture.
Have anyone pics about people climbing from the PT by net cargo ?
Thanks and apologies !


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area51

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 8:42am
gustavo -
On our occasions of making contact with the alamo scouts,
nets were not utilized. Our decks were only a few feet above the
water surface.
At a pickup rendezvous, the scouts were brought from the shore
by filipino guerillas in an outrigger. They just climbed aboard the boat.
this occurred late at night.

gus
pt 497


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Russ Blaise

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 9:20am
Hi Gustavo,

Most of the drop offs from PT's were during the cover of dark. On some occasions they were picked up during the day time. On board the PT's there were always an Alamo Scout contact team that stayed on the PT boat. They would help the operational team on and off the boat and be there for a backup and radio communications. As far as cargo nets being used, good question! I don't think they were used but we are having our reunion this week so I can ask a few of the Scouts and get back to you next week.

During operations in the Philippines the teams still used PT's but I remember my father telling me that his last few missions they used C-47's in Luzon.

I spent a week at the National Archives in College Park, MD and found no photos of Scout teams going on and off PT's. I think a flash bulb going off at the drop off point would be a dead give away... ;-)

Last year I was given a bunch of photos by one the son of team leader, John McGowen. In the group of photos are many photos of the team onboard PT boats. They were shot during the day probably going to or coming back from a mission. Hard to tell. The photos are in not-so good-of-shape but I will be posting them on the Alamo Scouts website in the near future.

Russ Blaise
Executive Director
Alamo Scouts Association
asa at alamoscouts dot org

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  Gustavo Martinez

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 12, 2009 - 3:10pm
Thank you very much
gus pt 497 and Russ !


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kstrehle

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 15, 2009 - 6:07am
russ

couple of questions

were the scouts also known as beach jumpers? is it possible the scouts used avr boats also?
thanks


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TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: May 19, 2009 - 7:04am
Morning;
Big difference between Alamo Scouts and Beach Jumpers.
Alamo Scouts were Army, their training schools were in theatre. They exclusively worked in New Guinea and Philippines. Alamo Scouts were a special forces unit that specialized in Special Reconnaissance, direct action missions(DA), Foreign Internal Defense(FID) and Unconventional Warefare(UW). 138 team members conducted 108 successful "known" missions behind enemy lines with a loss of a single man.
Beach Jumpers were Navy, there training was at Camp Bradford, Virginia Beach, Virginia(which today is part of NAB Little Creek) mainly worked in Mediterranean and had their largest success in this theatre. They specialized in deception, diversions, and psychological warfare. They used 63' ASR boats as their primary insertion/deception craft. Two Beach Jumper units were sent to the Pacific, to operate in the Philippines. They shipped out on Orestes, they lost some officers when the Kamakaze hit, and they lost some 16 more guys when Mangarin Bay PT base was bombed on New Years Day 1945. When they finally did get to operate, they were successful, but they were limited to a handful of actions.
Take care,
TED


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Russ Blaise

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message   Posted on: May 19, 2009 - 8:41am
Great explanation, Ted on the differences between the Alamo Scouts and Beach Jumpers... Thanks.

I don't believe the Scouts used AVR Boats for transportation to and from a mission... at least I'm not aware of it or heard any of the Scouts mention AVR Boats.

At the Alamo Scouts reunion I asked the Scouts about the use of cargo nets. They said no to that. The PT's were low enough to get on and off the rubber boats. PT-379 crewman, Ralph Kleeberger was at our reunion and said no to cargo nets also. Ralph was part of a rescue mission that the Dove Team carried out on Fuga Island... It was nice to see Ralph and his lovely wife, Lee Ann at our reunion. We had a great time.

Russ Blaise
Executive Director
Alamo Scouts Association
asa at alamoscouts dot org

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  TED WALTHER

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of TED WALTHER   Send Email To TED WALTHER Posted on: May 20, 2009 - 5:26am
Russ;
I would have to say you are correct, I know you ahve done far more research than I have on Alamo Scouts, but as far as I can determine, If waterborne insertion was required, PT Boats were always used. From a NavSpecWar point of view, I can see three main reasons for this: #1 Rapid and well armed insertion platform. #2 numerous assets, when the scouts started using PT's there were quite a few out there already. #3 Common to area, the Japanese were already used to hearing PT off the coast at night, so it was not unsual, the boats would drop off the team and then go flying up the coast to their designated patrol areas. I am sure the sound of Hall-Scott engines(which were in AVR/ASR boats) was very different than the Packards, this different sound could tip off the enemy, that somebody was just dropped off in the backyard and might come to dinner.
Take care,
TED


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Nuge210

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Post a Reply To This Topic    Reply With Quotes     Edit Message     View Profile of Nuge210   Send Email To Nuge210 Posted on: May 21, 2009 - 1:19pm
Hi Guys,

Does anyone know if the OSS operated in the South pacific, like they did in the
Med ?

Steve

Steve Nugent

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